Had my first embarassing moment at a stoplight today in the 430 (no I didn't lose a race to a WRX Sti or a 911). I was driving the car (as I usually do once it is warmed up) in manual (and race) mode. While pulling into the left turn lane I pull back on both paddles to glide to a stop while waiting at the red light. Only it remains in third gear. Try again and it engages N. Now while waiting at a light I typically engage first gear with the car stationary so that I am ready to go as soon as the light turns green. Only the car refused to engage first. I tried upshifting, downshifting, pulling back on BOTH paddles with no luck. I turn the car off and get a long beep (as you would expect if it is turned off in N). Turn the car back on, press the auto button and no luck-car will not go out of N. Turn the car off then back on, rinse and repeat. Meanwhile the green left turn arrow comes on and I am stuck. People around me honking their horns and going around me while I fiddle with the paddles and ignition. A women in a white SUV goes around me, looks back and smiles. No doubt delighted that someone in an expensive Ferrari is stuck (boy the bottom 99% can be cruel, can't they [jk]). All the while there are no error messages on the display. I had visions of abandoning the car, during rush hour in the middle of a busy intersection while I called a tow truck--didn't have my cell phone with me). Finally I turn the ignition off until the gear display goes off (it stays on for several seconds after the ignition if turned off normally) and once I turn it back on the gears engage normally and I'm off. SO the lesson for me is that if the car electronics are acting strange don't try to restart the car immediately. Wait until the entire display goes blank before restarting. I didn't understand why the car would not clear an error even though it sucessfully goes through its diagnostics and displays OK on the dash if it is turned off before the display goes completely blank. Second lesson is to have the Ferrari Road side assistance number handy at all times (if your car is still under warrantty as mine is.
3rd have cell phone with you at all times Glad to hear you drive off, but what do you think happened - tranny glitch?
O man embarrassing in deed... And I can defiantly see that woman driving past you smiling! Whenever I am at a light in my 430 and i just take a second to take off people start beeping right away... it never happens when I am in my every day car... benz!
Yeah, sounds like a tranny glitch. Maybe I didn't pull both paddles back simultaneously and the electronics got confused. No error messages on the dash. Just stuck in neutral. Just wanted to give people a heads up so that if this happens to you make sure to wait for the gear indicator to fully extinguish before turning on the ignition again.
That stinks. Nothing like being broken down in your Ferrari in the middle of an intersection. At least you weren't left stranded. Another F1 horror story.
Car doesn't need to be put in neutral while slowing down.... Downshift to second, then when you stop or get to a slow enough speed, the car will place itself in first. Car was built to do this, it doesn't confuse the electronics nor does it wear the clutch. Don't freak yourself out so much about clutch wear to create a problem as it sounds you might have... It's a car, the clutch will wear just as much as the brakes. I suspect that if you drive as little as most Ferrari drivers do, you will never need a clutch replacement regardless... Just have fun.. Downshift!!! The rpm matching is a BLAST!!! I've now got 30k 430 miles behind me between 2 cars and no clutch yet... And frankly, I even downshift all the way to 1 sometimes. I suspect you shouldn't be going to N from 3, as the car probably isn't really expecting that. *Also, IMO, there is zero need to do so. I am on my second 430... First one neared 20k miles with still 75% clutch life using this technique.... And I never got stranded at a stop light..
Understood. And if I think the light may change quickly to green I do just that. Or if I am approaching a turn and will not have to stop then I just downshift to 2nd gear. Maybe I'm in the minority but I do not like the rev matching. If I'm coming to a complete stop I find that the stop is smoother if I shift into neutral and avoid rev matching. I would think (but don't know for a fact) that this is also less wear on the clutch because it does not have to repeatedly disengage and re-engage the clutch as it downshifts. With the transmission in neutral the clutch will disengage but not until the car has come to a complete stop. I'd like to know where this logic is wrong.
If it happens again, when you're in N and change to 1st give it a little blip on the throttle. It some times can't engage a gear if there's not enough pressure in the F1 system.
Since the F1 allows you to put N from 3rd or 4rth, i dont see a reason not to do that. Unless it is stated on the owners manual. Also if we consider F1 system as an ordinary system with clutch, then i dont see a reason why not to skip gears and go to N. I mean if you downshift with a manual car, what would you do? Go to 3rd, 2nd, 1rst or straight to N?
I see what you mean and completely understand.... What about just slowing down and letting the car slowly downshift itself? That prevents the rev matching, but still brings it down to the lower gears? It just seems to be that having to watch things so carefully as to pull both paddles when coming to a complete stop is being overly cautious I guess. Now, if the car were a true manual, I would feel differently, as I would do exactly what you are describing. To me, the f1 is basically an automatic and/or a computer, so I really don't treat it as I do a full manual tranny. In my experiences, the more I try to *thwart* what it is trying to do for me, the more problems or goofy issues I seem to encounter. I never have driven in auto mode.. I simply upshift and downshift with the respective paddles, and when I do that, I seem to have zero issues. Only times I have ever used N is when winching the car in or out of a transport. You may not want to do it the way I do. Hell, my way might be 'wrong', I just haven't ever had any goofy issues by driving it that way, so just wanted to pass that info along in the event that it might prevent these issues for You in the future.
Mine rev matches on automatic downshifts. I thought that they all did so, no? Although the car can be driven in full auto mode and is like an automatic in that regard (in fact I have made that case myself previously) the internals are identical to the 6-speed. Why not drive it like you would a 6-speed? Thanks.
+1 to Babyboo about the construction of the gearbox, something we all know to be true. It is not a planetary gear setup with a torque converter as would be a true automatic. It is still a sequential series of gears with a clutch-pedal-less enhancement. The computer controls the clutch, not the driver. For these reasons, it doesn't seem intuitive to treat it like an automatic, although you can do. I guess that's one of the benefits of the F1 gearbox: VERSATILITY. So, on my M5 (and on my SMG M3 before that), I've always thrown the car into neutral when coming to a stop, as it is smoother (there's no rev-matching on the way down with these cars, but you can notice the "bump" plus your deceleration is non-linear as the engine drags more on successively lower gears). Non-linear deceleration makes it harder to control passenger comfort, so disengaging the gearbox means you can linearly slow down using just the brakes. I've never had any gearbox issues on my SMG cars, and I intend to do it the same way on my 360. I just wish the 360 had an actual gear lever like my BMW cars. It makes popping into neutral much more "natural" and a bit easier to figure out. Oh well.
Try shifting into reverse, then back to 1. I experience the same every once in a while. Going to R then 1 always works for me.
Forgot to mention, I tried that too, along with trying to put it into auto mode to no avail. I found a thread (elsewhere) on just this issue in a Scud and various theories were offered as to why this happens. Someone suggested that the gears, somehow, are not lined up properly and the system is designed to not force a gear change under those circumstances. Someone else suggested a worn clutch but I seriously doubt that is the case with me. Finally someone suggested that the F1 pump was overheating but I doubt that was the case here as I had just started up the car after a 20 minute stopover and was just pulling out of the parking area into the street. In any case this seems to an uncommon but not unheard of event with the F1 and these cars just seem to require a "reset" of the whole system before the error is cleared.
I've experienced the same problem as the OP. And yes, you just have to learn to ignore the 99% wankers on their horns and their envious glare and do your own thing - turn the car off fully - wait and restart. And it will be fine. The F1 transmission is a work of wonder - when it works. I'm still figuring out the downshift vs double paddle to N when rolling down to a stop.
Perhaps. On occasion, when engaging after being in N at a stop, I find the box delays, then selects 2, then 1. It's never totally balked, and it does this sequence only rarely. I've always wondered if it's having trouble with gear alignment on 1, so touches 2 to "move the box", then gets into 1. I used to do the same with my Alfa Spider. FWIW, I almost always pull N when slowing to a stop - usually from 3. The downshifts - whether manual or stall-prevention-induced definitely give a noticeable drag on your decel just as you'd expect, so I prefer coasting down in N. I don't see any reason why this practice should be avoided. I also doubt that any possible sequence or timing of paddle pulls should or could "confuse" the box.
Folks, As been said, don't shift to Neutral (ie, double paddle) at a stop light / when approaching a stop light. You are doing something the car isn't designed to do. Two embarrassing situations may occur -- #1 what happened to the OP, #2 forgetting to shift back into 1st and stepping on the gas resulting in engine rev. In either case, you will get stares from other drivers. Let the transmission operate the way it was designed by allowing the automated downshifting from 2-1 on its own (or 3-2-1; although I realize that many of us manually downshift from 3-2 which is OK). I realize that depending on the situation, a smoother slowdown and stop may occur by simply 'gliding down' speed in Neutral, but you may be asking for embarrassment. DL
The gearbox is an automated clutch manual gearbox, it is designed to work however you wish to drive, either shifting down the box manually, or allowing it to downshift when it decides or going to neutral as you coast to a stop. It will happily miss gears if required just as you would in a full manual, both up and down the box.
Placing the car in neutral or leaving it in gear makes no difference whatsoever to clutch wear. Whenever the engine is running, the clutch is disengaged until you apply throttle. Forcing the car to go into neutral confuses the system (it isn't programmed to expect anyone to do this, as there is no reason to!) and causes issues such as this. As you pull up to a junction just apply the brake and leave the f1 to do its thing!
Wrong. The system is fully programmed to expect a neutral whenever the driver asks for it, it is an automated clutch manual gearbox. It's flexibility is one of the advantages over DCT, along with weight saving and in SF2 guise a faster speed than DCT.
