UPDATED 360 Pricing Analysis - February 17, 2010 | FerrariChat

UPDATED 360 Pricing Analysis - February 17, 2010

Discussion in '360/430' started by ddemuro, Feb 17, 2010.

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  1. ddemuro

    ddemuro Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    2,129
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Doug
    #1 ddemuro, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hey all,

    As I continue to get positive feedback on my first 360 pricing analysis thread which I made about three months ago - and because it keeps getting bumped to the top of the forum with new questions or comments - I decided to use a rare block of free time today to make a new one reflecting up-to-date market conditions.

    Using regression analysis, I've taken data from 183 different Ferrari 360s on AutoTrader and the features which we'd expect to affect their value. The data is below. Please remember that this formula only accounts for asking prices, which can often be quite different from selling prices.

    Number of vehicles: 183
    Average price: $106,614
    Average mileage: 13,217 (median is 11,000)

    Formula:
    - start at $141,328.30.
    - subtract:
    ------- $24,371.60 for a 2005.
    ------- $29,245.92 for a 2004.
    ------- $34,120.24 for a 2003.
    ------- $38,994.56 for a 2002.
    ------- $43,868.88 for a 2001.
    ------- $48,743.20 for a 2000.
    ------- $53,617.52 for a 1999.
    - subtract $0.80 per mile.
    - add $11,233.14 for a Spider.
    - subtract $762.56 for an F1 transmission.
    - add $9,732.29 for Rosso Corsa.
    - add $476.36 for a Challenge Grille.
    - add $4,426.57 for shields. (?!)
    - add $2,450.32 for a factory dealer.

    It appears F1s have closed the gap on manuals. You'll remember that last time, F1 was a $2,300+ deduction versus manual; now it's only $762.56 which is almost meaningless when it comes to the price of these cars. For whatever reason, dealers are now pricing F1s lower (or manuals higher). I'd like to think it's due to my last pricing analysis, but in reality I think supply and demand have more do with it. :) Red still holds a crazy premium and shields hold an oddly high one too. About 70% of 360s have shields.

    The rest is as expected. But just for fun, here's the three "best buys" based on this analysis, and the three "you've got to be dreaming" sale-proof prices. I've also included the percentage each vehicle is above or below where the formula predicts they'll be.

    Best buys:
    1. 2003 Ferrari 360 Spider - $85,000 (-24.91%)
    2. 2004 Ferrari 360 Spider - $95,551 (-19.97%)
    3. 2000 Ferrari 360 Modena - $71,899 (-19.70%)

    Sale-proof prices:
    1. 2005 Ferrari 360 Spider - $189,900 (+39.87%)
    2. 2004 Ferrari 360 Spider - $169,500 (+35.17%)
    3. 2001 Ferrari 360 Spider - $139,500 (+27.35%)

    I've included some graphs this time to display some of the more interesting bits of data. These come from Microsoft Excel, on which I did much of this analysis. Feel free to respond here or privately with questions or comments! :)

    I've already got all the data on the 355, by the way - I hope to get that up tonight. Not sure if I'll do 430 but if there's demand and I have time, I can probably crank it out.
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  2. jet

    jet Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2004
    837
    Bay Area
    Excellent job on your research.
     
  3. andy308

    andy308 Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2005
    2,020
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Andy
    Great job again Doug. Very interesting.
     
  4. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Yeah, well done on the research.

    Shields! WTF?
     
  5. TZL

    TZL Formula Junior

    Dec 15, 2003
    289
    Atherton, CA
    thanks for your analysis, always interesting !
     
  6. lowyder993s

    lowyder993s Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2006
    503
    Leucadia, Ca.
    stop after I buy...I don't wanna know ;)

    Seriously Big D...EXCELLENT work! I used your 1st model on some cars that caught my eye...now I'm gonna go back and see what happens. Like FD sez...WTF on the shields?
     
  7. SeaNile

    SeaNile Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2010
    679
    West Chester, PA
    Full Name:
    John
    #7 SeaNile, Feb 17, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
    Add my 00 red/tan 6sp 8500 miles from dealer for $78,500 to the equation. No shields.

    John
     
  8. Eric360

    Eric360 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2010
    1,425
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Thanks Doug. Nice work, but the shields $$$ number sure makes the analysis look funny. I'm willing to sell my shields for $4k.
     
  9. lowyder993s

    lowyder993s Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2006
    503
    Leucadia, Ca.
    Anyone have an idea what replacement costs are for front quarters, shields vs non? Rifledriver?
     
  10. bgmix

    bgmix Formula Junior
    Owner

    Aug 1, 2009
    612
    AZ|NYC|FL
    Full Name:
    Bob Giammarco
    Impressive analysis. Adds to my feeling I bought well. Question for the group: My car has a factory sunroof. Apparently, these seem to be pretty rare. Even the local F dealer service rep commented that he couldn't recall the last time he saw one. Anybody think that adds any value? Just curious. I love the car so I'm well past worrying about did I pay too much, etc.
     
  11. Eric360

    Eric360 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2010
    1,425
    San Francisco, CA
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Been discussed a bit... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272965&highlight=sunroof

    If I had to guess, I don't think it adds or subtracts from the value. But you are right, it is rare.
     
  12. forgeahead

    forgeahead F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Sep 16, 2008
    4,408
    Rocky Mount, NC
    Full Name:
    Ray
    Very interesting. Thanks for the time invested. It is a true service.
     
  13. ddemuro

    ddemuro Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    2,129
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Doug
    Thanks all! Glad you guys could get some enjoyment/knowledge out of my side project! Compiling the data is a laborious process which takes forever but it's fun to see the end product.

    In statistics, the p-value is a number that determines significance. Any p-value under 0.05 means that the variable plays a part in price determination with 95% certainty - the statistical threshold for significance. In the case of the shields, the p-value was 0.016 - meaning that they play a causal role in determining the price with 99.984% certainty. I was shocked! But this is true over a sample of 184 cars. I wish I had an explanation!

    I wish I knew, but there are very few cars available with a factory sunroof. That said, the one on AutoTrader (and there's just one) that has a factory sunroof is priced higher than a non-sunroof car should be (about 3%, according to the formula - works out to just under $3k). So at least someone out there thinks it does!
     
  14. cyclisto

    cyclisto Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2008
    357
    Utopia
    Full Name:
    Sy Kleesteau
    brilliant work! can you do one on f430 pricing???
     
  15. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2008
    913
    huntingdon valley PA
    u are a smart guy.....nice work
     
  16. NSXLuvr

    NSXLuvr Formula Junior

    Oct 3, 2006
    575
    Tx
    Full Name:
    Ritesh
    WOW - That is amazing work.

    Let me guess what line of work you are in? LOL
     
  17. F360-1386

    F360-1386 Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2006
    1,685
    Markham, ON, Canada
    Full Name:
    51216M
    Well done ! Your research n presentation are professional and could be a posted as a grad-paper ! Hope to see similiar research on F430......
     
  18. zippyslug31

    zippyslug31 Formula 3

    Sep 28, 2007
    2,075
    PDX
    Full Name:
    Kevin M.
    Thanks for taking the time to collect and analyze this data.

    Seems that when you take numbers strictly for face value, something is "lost in the equation".
    One glaring hole in the final numbers are the premium for shields. My guess would be that there really are extenuating circumstances RELATED to cars with shields and not the shields themselves.
    Just hope that anybody looking at these numbers as an absolute, they would apply at least a little common sense.
    (not picking on the OP's work as I think it's fantastic; more a shout out to any possible sellers/buyers who might not be willing to negotiate due to these numbers)
     
  19. ddemuro

    ddemuro Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    2,129
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Doug
    I agree. The shields premium is statistically curious. But as I mentioned above, they do form a causal relationship with prices for whatever reason. Perhaps dealers specifically go after cars with shields. Perhaps owners who specified shields kept the mileage off their cars, or were more likely to get a red car, or more likely to get a convertible. Whatever the reasoning, I agree that I would expect buyers not to take this guide as the bible - it is not - and apply a little common sense. No doubt, shields can be purchased and mounted for less than the value they add to the car.

    Oddly, I just posted the data for the 355 and shields hold a similar premium - this time at ~91% significance, which is still enough to identify a causal relationship.

    Thanks for the kind words. :)
     
  20. Matt Andrews

    Matt Andrews Formula Junior

    Dec 31, 2006
    515
    Newport Beach, CA
    i think the shields premium is related to another characteristic of those cars. Cars without shields rarely have other options. However, cars that have upgraded seats, exhausts, grills, etc almost always have shields.
     
  21. ddemuro

    ddemuro Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    2,129
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Doug
    Definitely possible - good theory. And since my analysis didn't take exhausts or seats (or modular wheels) into account, it certainly could be that the shield premium is really a catch-all for shields plus other options.
     
  22. lpspeedster

    lpspeedster Rookie

    Dec 23, 2009
    44
    GTA
    from new guy on the block :)
    Definitely wanted shields (and although would have also preferred Daytona's or cf seats) otherwise a pretty 'basic' spider

    2004 6 spd Spider
    One Local Owner
    19kms
    Local Ferrari Sold and Serviced
    Maj Service Belts etc (late 2008)
    Argento (i did not want red/yellow) actually wanted Titanum/TDF/Argento in that order
    Blk interior w/Wht stitching

    Other Niceties:
    Tubi
    CF engine tidbits
    Red Calipers


    ~$150 cdn (taxes in)
    there are a few a bit older sitting at almost same range $130 +taxes
    but i really liked the history of this one


    ...believe it or not by the time I brought over a US car w/ PPI's, FOA letters, Canadian F-Dealership Letter, Exchange, Duties, etc...would have been practically at same price point.

    Cheers! & Great Job!!

    ..will post more & pics when delivered
     
  23. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    Doug, amazing work!

    These are the asking prices, what do you see as the spread between asking
    and selling prices - specifically in this market (today) re: F360's?

    From my anecdotal research, I'm seeing 20-25% spread - which seems extreme.

    Jim
     
  24. rimoore

    rimoore Formula 3

    Nov 18, 2004
    1,353
    Island in Maine
    Full Name:
    Richard Moore
    The 6-speed is worth 10K less then the f1.
     
  25. TZL

    TZL Formula Junior

    Dec 15, 2003
    289
    Atherton, CA
    That was when new....

     

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