TR died last night on the highway.. | FerrariChat

TR died last night on the highway..

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by KENCO, Nov 13, 2009.

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  1. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    2,396
    FL
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    KJG
    #1 KENCO, Nov 13, 2009
    ..Just stopped running, seems to be electrical not fuel, sat on the side of the road for about 15 min and it started and got me closer to home and died again, pushed the rest of the way. Were do I start to look for no spark on both banks? What controls power to both banks?

    It will probably start right up if I try it now........so it's intermittent.....I may have to drive around the block to make it happen again.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,144
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    #2 Steve Magnusson, Nov 13, 2009
    Are you saying:

    1. That it did not immedately restart (and run for at least for a few seconds) after stalling, and

    2. That you've confirmed that there is no spark on either bank when trying to restart (when immediately cranking after the stalling)?
     
  3. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #3 KENCO, Nov 13, 2009
    1. No it will not re-start, only crank.

    2. I have not confirmed no spark, until Sat., but it just died while at idle, I am thinking that if it was fuel that it would kind of gurgle and run out of whatever fuel was left in the lines.
     
  4. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    #4 Shamile, Nov 13, 2009
    Dear Ferraristi,

    While there are many tests to perform, try this quick one.

    On top of each coil there is a little module under the coil water protector. Swap them. If the module on the 7/12 bank is going bad, you won't fire the engine....just crank. If you swap the module from the 1/6 is good, you will get just the 7/12 bank firing.

    This happened to me a couple of years ago. I went through every single test to find this.

    One other thing is the fuel pump relays on the board. Bend the blades on the relay out to make better contact with the board......happend to me.

    ....kinda doubt it because both to fail at the same time....usually you would have a contact go out on one relay cutting off one bank.


    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice !
     
  5. mgv1

    mgv1 Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2006
    496
    San Francisco
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    Mark V
    #5 mgv1, Nov 14, 2009
    Holy cow, hope it wasn't far, you're the man! Hope you fix it soon.
     
  6. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    KJG
    #6 KENCO, Nov 14, 2009
    Is there a way to test this module? Which is the 1/6 side and the 7/12 side?
     
  7. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #7 KENCO, Nov 14, 2009
    Shamile, I read your dead module thread. I do not think I am having the same problem as you had. Mine will not re-start and stay running for a little bit, when it dies its completely dead, nothing at all, when it runs it runs fine.
     
  8. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #8 KENCO, Nov 14, 2009
    Got a nice calf workout! But I would rather push my Ferrari than be towed by a Japanese car! :D
     
  9. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #9 KENCO, Nov 14, 2009
    OK, went out to the garage and it fired right up ran perfect. I let it warm up at an idle unmoved and then it died. Checked for spark at each bank at each ignition coil and found this.

    Both sides put out a small quick pulse at the test light when the key first goes to start, and the another when the key is turned off. There is no spark on either bank when it is cranking.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    #10 Steve Magnusson, Nov 14, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2009
    Since both banks are out during cranking, begin with the flywheel sensors (if either one has a problem, neither bank will fire):

    1. Unplug/reseat/check the small round 4-pin connector under the coolant expansion tank (this connects the flywheel sensors to the MicroPlex ignition ECU). You can also unplug/reseat the 2-pin connector for each flywheel sensor (one is black and the other white) on the LH side of the clutch housing.

    2. If no change, then go on to the (unplugged) resistance and (plugged in while cranking) AC voltage (or oscilloscope) measurements of the flywheel sensors as described in these threads:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190856

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260371

    If those are OK…well, we don’t want to go there ;)…Good Hunting!
     
  11. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #11 KENCO, Nov 14, 2009
    Steve, funny but while you were typing your reply here I was checking the ohms on the flywheel sensors, from instructions on one of you previous threads, and the black ohms out ok about 748, the white is nothing, no response. Looks like the wire leading in to the white sensor could be faulty.
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    25,144
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    #12 Steve Magnusson, Nov 14, 2009
    Definitely not good for function (but very good for finding a plausible explanation for the trouble you've reported). I've never dissected one of these flywheel sensors, but my guess would be that the wire forming the sensing coil is a very small diameter, solid "magnet" type wire so could have a microcrack that makes connection when cold, but goes open after it heats up a little, and/or there must be joints between the magnet wire and the multi-strand wire going to the connector so that might have intermittent temperature trouble too.

    Last time I bought one of these, I found the best price at www.allferrariparts.com -- please let us know if you can find it for less.
     
  13. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #13 KENCO, Nov 14, 2009
    It's confirmed, with the sensor out of the car on the bench, no reading until the wire is twisted, then it goes to normal 700 ohms or so.

    Steve, I found one at Eurospares but with the freight from Europe it works out to be about the same as your source.

    Once again Steve thanks! If you ever need anything to do with doors or door hardware let me know, I will be glad to help you out for a change! ;)
     
  14. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    9,015
    Central NJ
    #14 ArtS, Nov 14, 2009
    I'm not sure if you can or its worth disecting, but experience suggests it is a bad solder joint in wire where it attaches to the sensor. If you can get to it, a touch of the soldering iron to the joint will fix the sensor. Worth a try considering its junk otherwise.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  15. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #15 KENCO, Nov 14, 2009
    I thought about trying to do a repair like you suggest, then thought for $100 is it worth possibly breaking down again?

    I probably will cut it open and take a pic to put in this thread to show the faulty area....

    Thanks for the info!
     
  16. KENCO

    KENCO Formula 3

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    #16 KENCO, Nov 16, 2009
    Opened the sensor up and there is not much to it, basically its two wires encased in plastic that hover over a magnet, no solder joints that i can see.
     
  17. rachidbaligh

    rachidbaligh Karting

    Dec 18, 2008
    189
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Rachid
    #17 rachidbaligh, Nov 17, 2009
    I'm glad you figured out the problem, I had an issue with my TR a couple of months ago and Steve helped me out too... I'm here in Colorado Steve if you ever need anything here let me know..
     

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