Starter Problem

If it were me, I would check and clean all of the connections relating to the starter throughout the system. The fact that it periodically will start the car may indicate that a electrical connection somewhere in the system may not be clean or tight. Older Ferrari around here are prone to "grow" corrosion on the electrical connectors with the rapidity of mushrooms on a fresh cow turd.

I live in a very high humidity, hot-as-hell place in the summer months, and it is not at all uncommon for the starting system on any type automobile to exhibit the type problem that you describe.

Sometimes it is the starter or silenoid, but more common is the connection with the battery, battery ground cable, or corrosion or loosening of the connections at the silenoid itself. About a month ago, my brother and I just finished cleaning the connections on a truck I own which would make a noise not unlike grinding rocks in a food processer on one try and then starting the truck without problems on the next. The problem on the truck was the positive connector on the silenoid. The fixed stud onto which the electrical cable attaches is steel, the electrical cable connector is copper and the fixing washer and nut are steel. Differences in the rates of expansion seem to be the culprit here where the winter temperature can dip to 0 degrees F and the summer temperature can reach 105 degrees F combined with vehicle age, humdity and the vibration experienced with running and driving the vehicle. It does not take a great deal of corrosion to interrupt the connection with the starter system as this particular system requires the largest draw of amps and if the system doesn't get the amps cleanly, it may not work properly or consistently.

The change in the amount of moisture (your rainstorm) could have been enough to induce the changes in your starter system if one or more of the connectors were marginal at that time ...

Keep us posted

Best wishes

 

I trust you weren't over here phil ?.....as you didn't call in.
see you soon......d

 

I trust your starter problem did not sour the trip too much.....i would be pleased to share your classic le mans experiences over a beer or two (bushy's finest), as a few of us are considering the trip next year (north west driveout 417)
cheers for now phil.......d

 

Did the problem occur every time you went to start the car? Ort only after a spirited run with the engine hot?

Any other details as to the conditions surrounding the problem?

I'm having the same trouble with my 246GT, but only whe the engine is good and hot.

Mechanic and I have been trouble shooting it, but so far, no luck. Re-shim, change solenoid, check battery, etc.

 

If it happen again put 4th or 5th gear in and move the car alittle way forward or backwards.
When the car starts immediatly, then i think the startermotor its self is the problem.
The pinion of the starter got sharp ends to slide in the starterring and after a thousend starts it isn`t
I hope it will help.

 

Archive

Troubles Starting? Maybe it isn't the starter!

Are you having troubles with the starter motor?

Don't fret too much. I had it, at first I thought it was the starter so I made rebuilt one for about 150 Euros because it is a Nipon Denso like Japaneses car so it was possible to find parts.

But finaly it was not it, it start one time and the next time it didn't work but made a "clac"(sound heard).

To repair it you must know that there is a red wiring harness (one end male other female) that does not appear in the manuals. To find the connector look under clutchpump (engine-leftside)





Be sure to check it to see that the connector is clean. Sometime it is not correctly connected as was the case with mine.

So the ground was bad.





Clean it very well and re-connect it. I used two addtional clamps to hold it better as you can see in the photo.





After this no more problems and only 150 euros lost (which you can save)! So try this fix before you rebuild your starter.

Happy Wrenching,
Guido




About | Contact

Hosted by Interland: First Month Of Hosting FREE Copyright © 2002-2003 Kurvenlage, Inc. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

PS : the picture is not a Mondial, but the connector is similar...
Guido
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Is there a connector like this also on the 348?
I might have the same problem, but I cannot find the connector you are reffering to...

 

The car picture IS a 348 model....

Perhaps this link will help:
http://www.ferrariforum.net/tech/view.php?id=22

 

Thanks!
Connector checked. There is none
They must have changed this during the years (I have a -93 348 Euro)

 

here's something to read that may help in sorting out your problem ...

http://home.att.net/~ferrari/running1.htm

It is important to ensure that the connectors are clean and tight.

Having the vehicle start when cold, run well until the engine is hot and then fail to start the car: then sit for several hours then start the car ... bad connector, bad wire. Things expand when hot.

Me, I'm an accountant: My Father, brother, two cousins and a nephew all Electrical Engineers ... starter could be bad, but unlikely; solenoid could be the cause but the fact that it works when the vehicle is cold and not when hot would seem to indicate that rule-out the electrical system as the cause before performing mechanical repair. The fact that there was an event prior to the problem developing may further indicate that the problem is within the electrical system.

Keep us posted

Best wishes

 

I can go one better than that - I'm the DENSO starter / alternator sales engineering manager in the UK!

From these symptoms, it is really hard to pinpoint the problem (also not sure what kind of starter was fitted to the Mondial). As already posted, I can't emphasise enough the need for good, solid, clean connections in the system. Not only in the electrical connections themselves, but the mounting of the starter to the transmission / engine (earth path). In this case, I would tend to think that the problem is due to the solenoid line - it's chattering because there isn't enough power getting to the 'holding' coil to keep the starer engaged.

Anyway, definitely suggest cleaning all connections first before looking at the starter in more detail

Good luck!

 

And DEM raises with one starter / alternator sales engineering manager ... hmm, I think I have been trumped!

Glad you are involved!

Best wishes

 

At last - I win something! Might be worth doing the lottery this weekend................................ ;-)

Seriously, if anyone does have any starter / alternator problems, I'll do my best to help out with any advice!

Cheers,

Dem.

 

I had a similar problem with my 512TR and think I solved it today.

Two weeks ago I was on a 260 mile trip home in extreme heat (a bank sign in Quanah, Texas showed 110 degrees) and I stopped for a few minutes to get a bite of lunch. When I tried to re-start, nothing happened. The radiator fans were running so I couldn't hear if there was a click or anything baut I know the starter never engaged. After about five tries with the starter switch it took off.

Yesterday I was driving in slightly cooler temps (only 102) and after a five minute stop, it wouldn't start. The fans weren't running this time so I listened and watched carefully what was happening. There was no click from the solenoid but I noticed the warning lights in the dash dimmed slightly when the starter switch was turned indicating that the solenoid was pulling some current. After 4 or 5 tries it engaged and started.

I assumed something very complicated with the ECU or a sensor of some sort was involved and would take a dealer technician to solve. As a first step I thought I'd remove the starter and see if there was a glaring problem. There sure was; the Bendix drive splines were gummed up where I could barely turn the gear to the point of engagement by hand. After washing with solvent it freed up where one finger could move it. I thoroughly cleaned everything at the drive end of the starter and lubricated the Bendix and planetary gear drive. I did not pull the plate at the brush end of the starter for fear of opening a can of worms with no parts available. Ferrari only lists the complete starter in the parts book with no separate parts, not even the solenoid.

I re-installed it and the engine started quickly and I feel the problem is solved, but the real test will come Saturday when I make a longer drive. I don't know how hard the starter is to get to on a Mondial, but on the 512TR it is on top and very easy to remove. Just be certain to turn off the battery switch or remove one battery terminal before touching the terminals with a wrench.

Does anyone know if the starter is Bosch? The solenoid was made in Germany but I find no other markings. The starter did have a decal on it from a starter shop in Ft. Lauderdale, so I assume parts are available.

Hope this helps.

Ron

 

On the 512 starter topic, i would surmise that the unit must be a Bosch. As I have an 82 Mondy in right now to undo some sodium valve destruction, one of the things we wanted to do was to go thru the starter. Sourceing a solenoid found the Ferrari replacement was well, priced like a Ferrari part. So I looked into it, and a solenoid from a mid 70's VW Buss, Bug, etc, will drop in. Priced like Bug parts, at around $20.00, the only differance is an extra terminal, no doubt from past years when points required ballest resistors.
HTH..
Kermit

 

all Ferrari startes are bosch. You can get them through any Bosch parts dealer at more then half the price the Ferrari dealer will sell them. I was quoted 2200 for a TR starter. I went next door to the Bosch dealer..650