Had a great time, there were 2 F40s, 3 Daytonas, a 333SP, a California, 1 TR Mine LOL, and of course a bunch of 308s, 355s, & 360s There were also some cool Lotus Exige race cars I was trying to get down to 1:00:00 but the best I got was a 1:02, Didnt brake my record of 1:01. I think if I had fresh tires I could have seen 1:00
William, I have to applaud your enthusiasm. You don't miss an event and you always seem to have the best time. BRAVO!! That is my opinion of what this great hobby is all about.
For some of us that have never been to a track event, have never driven on a track and know absolutely NOTHING about tracking a car, how does one get started with this (i.e. school? license?) and what do you have to do to the car in order to be allowed on a track? Where can someone learn about this? I have interest in learning and maybe doing this, but no interest in having to heavily modify my car with 5 point belts, safety wire, etc. It would be GREAT if someone that knows about this could do a thread on the basics of what is involved. I think there would be more interest in this sort of thing if the whole process weren't such a mystery. Thanks. Birdman
Its was a great event, both days ran very smoothly, and everyone had thier ish together. Only a couple spins, no serious accidents or incidents, a couple people doing stupid stuff, but thats normal, nothing too big. I did not even bother setting my car up between sessions, I was just driving itto learn it more, but there was a bit too much traffic, i barely could get a clean lap. It was fun seeing everyone scramble to figure out a way to make ghetto mufflers for the the F-cars on saturday when they setup the decibel meter, and somehow my car passed I got some video of the event if anyone is interested...lapping the white/green drivers, haha. I stayed in white for the weekend b/c for my time schedule it gave me more sessions then if I did blue..efficient useof time Locals were at the track of course, very nice people, my dad and I led the lunchtime touring on friday and gave some local kids some time on the track during lunchtime, but people have to realize you cannot go more then 50mph during lunchtime. On saturday people were flying during lunchtime, with no corner workers, helmets, and small kids in the car, it's just wrong and dangerous, and it's been a problem recently. Lotus's were cool, but like most lotus's they had some engine issues. The nastrucks were intense as always, and the gt3 supercup was a pure dream to watch. I tried to get some data from his dash system (our team is sponsored by the same company/system-aimsports) but unfortunately he forgot his beacon, so he had no data. Heres the car:http://gallery.underclockers.net/albums/6-28-04-at-Pocono/gt3supercup_LRP.jpg Here's us doing a quick bleed of my brakes for saturday, had some air in the front mst cyl, but once we bleed the front mst cyl, the pedal felt tons better of course. http://gallery.underclockers.net/albums/6-28-04-at-Pocono/BrakeBleed_04_LRP.jpg Its a little engine (2.5L in an m3ltw), so I gotta get a bit more used to the car, use its momentum instead of power, it slides well, and I was doing a good 125+ on the straight, so it has enough nut for a solid 1:00. But I have yet to set the car up for limerock, once thats done I'll be able to hit 1:00, or better if i get enough seat time here. This weekend with all the traffic and the hot weather I was doing 1:04-1:05, but it's always crowded at these events so the number of clean laps to practice was limited...i guess in the end it would have benefitted me more to run in the advanced group and be challenged to pickup the pace instead of lapping the field. oh well, it was fun and another great learning experience, and a good time to test some stuff i made on/for the car. Anyways, again great event, and the CC crew was great as usual.
Birdman, it's actually not as tough as you might think. Your stock car should be fine, assuming everything is in running order and it passes tech inspection. No harnesses or seats or whatever needed (and certainly no safety wiring; we run on four wheels, not two ). You can participate in track events (called "Driver's Education" by some other clubs, like PCA & BMW CCA). All you really need is a helmet and an open mind. Wanna get started? The FCA's next local track event is at Watkins Glen on Labor Day weekend. The Alfa Club of CT is at Lime Rock on Saturday, August 28th. Ping me or check out www.fca-newengland.org for details. Having said all that, there is a BUNCH of information for enthusiasts in your position. I held an informal track-day talk a couple of months ago - about a dozen of us got together at dinner and spent a few hours talking about what it takes for novices to go to the track - from safety and preparation to racing concepts (the "line", proper techniques, lingo) and practical matters (what to bring to the track, where to stay overnight). I'll probably do another similar dinner, through the FCA/NER, towards the middle of August. In the interim, if you have any specific questions, feel free to ping away. Aside from that, I had a great time at LRP with our usual gang (Team Pilota). Have some fantastic video, including some catching, hassling and passing of Solly and William H. My top times were around the high 1:02s, which I don't think is too bad in a stock street 355 (I think I was one of only three cars in the expert run group with a license plate). IIRC, 355 Challenge times at LRP on race days were in the high 5X.X range. Most memorable moment was probably watching a new black Porsche 911 GT3 trying to keep up with us on the Downhill, only to spin it 720 degrees immediately behind me. Amazingly, he managed to save it, ended up pointing down the straight, and after a brief pit stop, came right back out to keep playing with us. Also had a lot of fun with a friend in his 360CS - man, that thing is fun to drive. Too much fun. Birdman, you really need to do it! vty, --Dennis
Hi FormulaRacer, So you are the guy in the race prepped BMW! We ran together for a few laps on the first day (I drive the #44 green Maserati). I ran in the green/white group the first morning; they switched me to the blue group for the rest of the weekend. Good to see some of the same people on this site as on the track BTW, my best was a 1:05....which is not that fast...I am still learning which way the track goes, still learning how my car works, and still running on the original OEM Michelin Pilot street tyres instead of sports tyres or slicks. - Jon My Maserati was probably the only car running air conditioning on the track! Had to keep the windows down though
All you need is to be an FCA member, sign up, get a helmet, bring long sleeve shirt & pants, change your oil, brake fluid, have good tires, get your car tech inspected at a local mechanic & GO!!!!!!!!!!! You can start in the green/white group which is for beginners & has low pressure & low speed, so stress is minimal Bring lawn chairs & snacks
thanks jon! man - there were a LOT of cars there. question: i've never been to an FCA track event, though i have been to PCA track events. the PCA guys are often very strict about p-cars only (at least at NHIS). but based on these pics, maybe 50% of the cars there this weekend were f-cars. is that normal? is lime rock so expensive that it has to be maxed out to be reasonably priced? question: whose 550? good for them! doody.
Whether cars other than Porsches are allowed at a PCA event varies from region to region. The Northeast Region (which you would belong to based on where you live, Doody) allows all marques. The FCA guideline is for Ferrari-powered vehicles only, but if there is room, generally we allow other vehicles as well. Hence the smattering of Porsches, BMWs, custom track-day cars, etc. Instructors (in every club, methinks) can drive whatever they want. Re: 550s, the dark blue one had a nose just covered with stone chips. Good on 'em indeed! vty, --Dennis
Jon, great job! Fantastic progress, given that this is only your second event!!! As we discussed after the Challenge weekend three weeks ago, I think you're really hooked now! How did you time yourself? Hot Lap timer, video, or stopwatch? Typical lap times for a decent (but not awesome) driver in a 360 Challenge should be around 56-58 seconds, for a 355 Challenge call it just under a minute, and any street car that can get under 1:06-1:08 with street tires is astonishing. I don't think I could get down to 1:05 with my 355 on street tires, and I've got probably 4,000 or so laps of Lime Rock under my belt. Guess I've got to start pointing you by! Glad to hear that you moved up to Blue - there is no way anyone in white/green could go faster than, say, 1:08 or so, there was just too much slow traffic. Heck, in Instructors, the street legal cars were all doing about 1:05-1:06, and in red, the two or three street legal cars were doing about the same. So... when are you going to get a Challenge? BTW, I too ran with my a/c on... and so did John in his 355CH! vty, --Dennis
Guys, Thank you for great time at the track. Sorry for creating so much traffic, but I am learning as fast as I can. This was my first full day in school. Hopefully, next time I can open up my car more. I never had a chance to floor it, cause I was making sure I did not slow anybody behind me, and I was trying to learn corners. I think I made more pass by signs then anybody at Lime Rock. I know I made mistakes, and I am trully sorry, but that's why I am with instructors and learning. Thank you instructors Bruce and Shaun. See you next time. Gene Red 360 Coupe #8 Slowest car on the track
Birdman, there is an excellent and comprehensive drivers' ed event guide at http://www.cvrpca.org/cvrguide02.pdf - It's been developed over the years by a succession of very experienced DE folks. It's 30 pages or so, well worth printing out and leaving with the magazine collection in the, uh, tile library. It's by the Porsche club, but various club's DE events have a lot more similarities than differences, so it'll be a good primer for any of the events.
I purchased a stopwatch from the Driving Impressions store at Lime Rock during the July 8th event. I just gave the stopwatch to anybody who would help. Spivy timed me at 1:05, Cliff (in the black GT3, who spun chasing you) timed me at 1:06. Most of my laps were in the 1:08 - 1:10 range, but there was traffic, so I am not sure if the 1:05 and 1:06 were flukes or what. BTW, during my first weekend at Lime Rock (the July 8th event) when the track was configured with the chicane, I did at least 4 consecutive laps at 1:12. The Maserati instructors giving demo rides were doing 1:15s. The Maserati Coupe has got an amazing engine - my car was faster than most 355s on the straights, and I had no problem drafting a 360 CS, even a 996 TT on the straights, that I chased for a few laps. Besides, the A/C cut my lap times by at least 2 seconds. And the GPS Navigation helped me figure out which way the track went! - Jon
Haha, I was able to get through some traffic, had to run through the pits sometimes, but i ran a couple 1:04's with white/green. I guess I would have been able to run much faster if I went to the blue like they suggested, but white/green had an extra session saturday, and for the time schedule we were on, it allowed me to get more track time. Yea, they suggested i move into blue, as i waslapping the field a couple times during each session, haha. I guess looking back on it i probably should have. Had lots of fun though, still getting to trust the car100% before I can really start to push it. I should be doing a minute flat once I set it up for lrp and get good seat time there. The car is setup to slide, and it does it very well. The purpose of having it slide a little is for when it gets a little out of shape, it does not snap abruptly, much easier to catch the car, and run it very hard through the corners. I was able to barely even tap my brakes on the downhill, and catch guys in 500hp+ porsche turbo's halfway down the straight.... BY the way, the car only has a SMALL 2.5L, so i had less then half the HP of most of the cars out there...just shows you Limerock is a drivers track
Wow... that's awesome! Congrats! Tell me, have you considered competing with the BMW CCA club racing program? You definitely should because a 1:04 would mean that you would be one of the fastest E36 325i's running in a race! http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/Archives/2002%20Series/Results/02lrp.htm For example, Andy Price, the fastest E36 325is driver, had a best lap of 01:04.112. He managed to shave another second of that in the next race, but you would certainly have finished second. And keep in mind, the "fastest" laps recorded during those Club Races were without dozens of slow newbies blocking your path, so you should be faster yet. Those guys in Blue should be glad that you stayed in Novice/Beginner! I can't imagine what it must been like for those other beginners - I threw the watch on a bunch of them, and a lot of them were doing lap times in the 1:20-1:25 zone, so at 1:04, that means you would have lapped them in only four laps! And if you can indeed get your times down to a minute flat, as your goal, you'd have won almost every BMW Club Race at LRP! Man, Bill Auberlen should look out! vty, --Dennis
Gene - don't worry about it!!! Everyone started out as a beginner. Some of us just take longer to come up to speed, no pun intended. (Not all of us can be savants like Jon! ) I think when I started, I just took a mannequin's arm and duct taped it to the roof to point EVERYBODY by! You paid your fee, you're entitled to use the track. Thankfully, you have the best attributes of a beginner - you use your mirrors, you point people by, and you're eager to learn. That's great. So no apologies necessary! And sign up for Watkins Glen - I think it'll give you more of a chance to use the power of your 360 (though the consequences of making a mistake are higher).... vty, --Dennis
Jon, seriously, it wouldn't surprise me if you were really fast. I think that the best students are those who ride motorcycles or ski; ski racers and motorcycle racers are amazingly quick to pick up on road racing, so your motorcycling past definitely helps. And the Maserati IS a stunning car - and the A/C should have a clutch on it so that it isn't running when you give it full throttle, so it shouldn't have slowed you down THAT much... vty, --Dennis
My comment re the A/C was partly tongue in cheek. I meant to say that the A/C *reduced* my lap times as I was able to concentrate longer. I was pretty tired by the afternoon on the second day. I would have been even worse, and probably slower, without air conditioning. - Jon
I was being a wise a$$ right back atcha, Jon. I agree with your comments about being more comfortable - which is why I was running with MY a/c on! Better to lose a few horsepower (out of ~400) and be able to focus better.... vty, --Dennis
Actually, the cars I would compete against run about a high 58's to low 59's. The car is an E36 M3 Lightweight GT prepared chassis with a 2.5L World Challenge spec motor (actually less then spec). Its a whopping 270hp haha, in full wc spec it was 290hp, and it currently has a whole 190wheel torque, flat across the powerband though, Stickley tunes well. The car owuld be a D modified car, running against very fast e30 m3's with 2.5L and extremely fast e36'swith DM spec 2.9L running upto 330hp! This was the first chance i had to get this car up to the rock, and I was VERY happy with its performance. I did not even want to bother with setting up, i want to learn the car as is, and make sure i know when I adjust something I feel the difference. Also, just having a fast time is nothing when it comes to wheel to wheel racing. When you are going wheel to wheel you can have the fastest lap, but still not win. If I was running clean laps sequentially, I would have been lapping them much quicker for sure. But getting stuck in traffic atleast every other lap, slows that down. I was able to lap a couple cars 3 times at some points, but they were most likely newbies and were being extra cautious. If anyone is interested in videos, i posted two here: http://gallery.underclockers.net/gallery/6-28-04-at-Pocono?page=3 The one on the right is a little small in size (resolution wise) b/c i pressed the wrong size button, but you can just drag the window and its pretty clear. I was able to hit 125 on the straight on the cleanest of laps (about 6300rpm in 5th, since i dont have the speedo hooked up on the stack), and 115 on noname (7000 in 4th). I took 3rd from big bend to beginning of noname (7000 in 3rd is 85mph), then on a fast/clean lap i would carry 4th up the hill, tap the brakes quick for west bend, stay in 4th under the tunnel, another quick tap, then shift to 5th mid straight....then go 5>3 late brake into big bend. Big bend is great for coming in hot if you take a very short-tight line (as seen in the video) b/c you can slide the car and still make the turn fast even if you come in hot...i.e. threshold braking to pass someone deep. Its my favourite track, and I can'twait to go back and set the car up so i can push it 100% with full confidence.
So you were running without air conditioning? You guys are not gonna believe this (and I am embarrased now that I know better), but initially on Friday, I was "feeding" the wheel from one hand to another to apply sufficient lock to correct the car's slides. Luckily, an instructor told me that my steering technique was better suited to driving a bus!! As soon as I learned not to feed the wheel, my lap times improved by a second or two! Fortunately, the instructor had no problem with my running the car with air conditioning! - Jon aka "Bus Driver"
Well I have a driver cooling duct attached to a Naca on the side passenger window, thats "conditioned" air...flows heavily at speed, its a great little feature!
