My 308 AC works now!

Great to hear . $50? Didn't you have to pay for a new R-134 compressor?

 

I agree . Did my conversion a few years back and it works great. Been running for 2 years now and still pumps out 40D air at vents. I also turn the defroster vents toward my face and that works good. When I bough my car the AC was not working for 8 years because the compressor seal let go. So all I did was replace the compressor (york) and got a new receiver/dryer (T Rutland ) and then filled it to 80% with 134a and a can of Cold Shot. Upped the idle to 1100 rpm and system works great.

 

Birdman,

What parts do i need as i would GLADLY enjoy having the 308 here converted as the AC does not work. Lemme know and i will buy what is needed. MANY thanks as ALL help is ALWAYS apprecaited!!!

 

Your system uses the smaller Sanden style compressor as I recall.

I've got most of what would be needed already. If you'll drop by most any evening this week, we can take a quick look at your system & determine what else will be needed.

It would be best if I picked up the parts as I can get a better price & know exactly what's needed. Conversion on your system is probably going to take more like 6 or 7 hours because the compressor has to be pulled to drain & refill it. Hmm, we could probably change your brake fluid at the same time.

Would need to see your compressor to see whether straight or 90degree conversion fittings are needed.

Also will need to determine how your compressor oil drain plugs are sealed. Probably with a copper crush washer which we'll need a replacement for.

Your system is still holding pressure, so IMHO, the dryer shouldn't need replacing. However, it's your call. Replacing is the most conservative approach. They aren't too expensive, less than $100. Need to see yours to get make & #s off of it. Your car may have a different style dryer than most 308s since it has the Sanden style compressor.

Also needed are:

3 cans of R134a (Make sure there's NO secondary oil or other 'friction reducing' (aka oil) additives.)

3 8-oz bottles of Ester Oil (Read the fine print on the back, make sure it says it contains Polyol Ester( POE) oil, NOT PAG (PolyAlkaline Glycol). http://www.sunairusa.com/poe.htm

PAG is intended for use in NEW R134a systems, where no R12 or mineral residues are present, & all the seals & o-rings are designed for it. However, I just recently bought a bottle labled ESTER in big letters on the front. The fine print on the back said it was 'ester compatible polyalkaline glycol with additives...' Am doing some research but expect to return it & get real POE oil.

No, if a compressor is in good shape, you don't need to replace it. Especially the YORK (piston) style compressors. They're damn near bulletproof, still used for truck & marine refrigeration systems. You do need to drain as much of the old mineral oil out as possible out of the compressor & replace it with Ester (POE) oil. Again, the YORK style compressors are nice because they've got that nice oil fill port on the side of the crankcase.

The cylindrical Sanden style compressors have to be pulled & drained of as much mineral oil as possible, & then an equivalent amount of POE oil added.

If the system is still holding some pressure when you start, the dryer shouldn't need replacing.

 

Had mine converted over as well at the recommendation of the mechanic back in '02. The AC has been working like a charm ever since.

 

Verell,

Ok, will arrange an eve...

 

Verrell,

Have you heard about a product called Duracool? Their is a great tech write up by Carl Rose on ************ about the 308/328 AC systems.

I was thinking of charging mine with the Duracool product. In fact, I've already got new seals and R-12 comptable oil for the conversion to that refrigerant. (PAG as I recall)

When I was doing my timing belts, I managed to bump the compressor against the timing belt cover, broke the pulley seal and all the R-12 and some oil leaked out.

I know that R-134a is not as effecient as R-12, but since it's 1/10th the price most convert to R-134a. However, the molecules are smaller so it's more prone to leaking, and I would think in an older system it would be a problem.

The Duracool stuff is not as prone as R-134a to leaking, and it's also about the same price.

If you've got time, peruse the article on the 'other' site and let me know what you think.

I sure wish I lived closer to you! This car get's really hot in this Houston humidity! Where did you get you vacuum pump?

Also, do you think I should replace the compressor (~$250), or just get a new seal ($20) and install that (which I've read is a real PIA). Of course, for $200 at little cussing and swearing may be worth it.

 

That's terrific news, Dave! I'll send you a PM shortly. Yes, John was the one who made the recommendation and performed the AC conversion. Boy, do I ever miss having them around to service the car! They were the best.

 

Duracool is NOT legal for use in the us!

R134a LEAKING ISN'T A BIG ISSUE:
The R134a 'leaking' issue has turned out to be much less in practice in converted systems than was expected. Apparently the mineral oil in the system permeates the inner walls of the hoses & forms a barrier layer that's quite effective. Same for compressor seals & o-rings.

(There's some good material in the study guide on R134a retrofits.)

SEAL vs NEW compressor
Also note that NAPA sells rebuilt YORK compressors for $150 or so.

I came across this a while back. It contradicts the statement that the seal is a PITA to replace.

Hope it's helpful.

 

Yes, thank you. Very helpful.

What about a source for a vacuum pump? Would it be easier to just ask an AC shop to put the system under vacuum for me, than ad the R134a at the house? I've got the guages to do this.

I also have a replacement dryer that's $60, including a switch (The Ferrari part is the same as a SAAB part - don't have the # handy).

What else would I need. Since I'm in Texas it would be a little tough for me to drop by your place!

Also, is there a trick to removing the refrigerant lines off the compressor? I loosened them, but then as I was turning them off, they tightened up again. Is the seal inside the fitting just stuck since the system is so old and would a tap with a mallet maybe help to loosen it?

Thanks again.

PS I have the York Compressor on my car.

 

Of course, you can stick with R12 as well. Still available, cost about $80 a full charge at most A/C shops. Otherwise there are a few straight alternatives, there should still be different connectors etc. used per EPA regulations. If I get a non standard refrigerant car, I will not work on it, most shops are adopting the same policy, we cannot risk expensive equipment damage because someone went cheap previously.

 

If you're going w/R134a, it'd be easiest to ask a shop to evacuate it & then charge it with R134a. Their machine can do a much better job of metering the charge than you can do manually. R134a is so cheap that most of the cost will be their labor. Bet the price to just evacuate is almost as much as recharging the system.

Insist they sustain the vacuum for a full hour to ensure all the water is boiled out of the system. Also, it's best to have the car good & warm when starting the evacuation. That way any moisture inside the system will be ready to boil off when the vacuum is pulled.

I bought a used commercial HVAC pump on eBAY (JB Industries, rated 3cfm). for $150 + shipping. I needed it to pull a vacuum on casting material.

However, HVAC pumps usually go for more like $250-$300. If you get one, 3cfm is the right size for auto work. 5cfm is on the high side. Don't get larger than 5cfm.

Don't waste $ on the Harbor Freight venturi pump. The air temp has to be above 90 F for water to boil at the 28 inHg vacuum it pulls. Also, it takes a LOT of air, spec is 5cfm, but it really seems to consume more like 8 or 9 cfm at 100psi. Most compressors can't sustain that kind of air flow for the hour it takes to ensure an A/C system is dried out.

Save the dryer until the very last minuite. As soon as you pull the end seals off, the dessicant starts sucking moisture from the air. Ideally the dryer would be installed just before pulling the vacuum. That way it's full capacity is available to deal with any residual moisture left by evacuation.

The lines are 'bayonette' style. They have a straight section that goes into the matching connector. There's an o-ring over the straight section, then a nular raised ring is swaged on the tube. The o-ring is compressed between the end of the mating fitting & the raised ring. Lastly, the threaded fitting slides pulles the raised ring towards the mating fitting.

If the straight section is even slightly cocked sideways, it binds up. Try a twisting motion with some sidewise rocking motion while pulling outwards. Once it starts moving, should be a straight pull.

This is pretty common.

It's almost impossible to remove contamination by a wrong coolant from a charging/recovery system. It's steep federal fines to continue to use a contaminated system. Also, recyclers will cut you off if they find that refrigerant returned to them is contaminated.

So for a lot of reasons, anything but R12 or R134a is likely to cause some kind of hassle over time. Think about trying to explain an alternative refrigerant to a prospective buyer!

 

Or, as is common on some old foreign sports cars, the alternator is bad and you're drawing too many amps, and so the temp needle falls. I knew a guy who could "cool" his car by blasting the CD, and if was a really hot day would turn on the headlights to keep from overheating ;>) .

Ken

 

Your alternator may not be bad, but it only puts out 65A. The carb'd 308s don't need much elec. power to run, tho.

The A/C blowers, clutch, & radiator fan are probably a significant
increase to the load on the alternator.

See what happens to the temp gauge by turning the headlights on while driving with the A/C on.

 

Verell, Birdman, both of you are kick - ass members, thank you ( yet again) for all the great info here, ditto to the others who added bits here. what is so wierd, is as i have been planning to do this or that to my 308, a really detailed thread appears. i though my a/c system was toast and that the condenser was damaged when the car bumped the curb ( previous owner). the system had almost a full charge in it and the existing condenser was fine. i had already purchased another radiator and condenser prior to the car arriving. i love extra parts. i am planning to do an a/c conversion , as soon as i fix the freaking vaccum leak. been too busy to touch the car for the last few days..... big repair job came in at work, lots of overtime! if i can get the time to upgrade the a/c and do a few other things, i hope to be able to move on from the 308 to something with carbs and 12 cylinders.


hey it never hurts to have goals and dreams!!! thanks for the great info ! Michael M.

 

I have the York comp. but has not worked since I bought the car. The former owner said they had spent $1200 on it and it never worked well. With this new information that they can work well gives me new hope. I will need to check for leaks. Wow working AC in Texas what a thought.

 

Where would I find conversion fittings?

I saw fittings on the r-parts link above, but which ones do I need?

Also, does anyone have any idea how fast the compressor is spinning? The catolog at r-parts has a BTU capacity for the compressor and I'm just curious about it on my system. I know others have put a bigger fan in there cars and gotten a little more CFM's (although at a higher outlet air temp).

Thanks

 

Almost any auto parts store will have R134a fittings. If you have the YORK style compressor, you'll need a 90 degree high-side fitting which places like AutoZone & PepBoyz most likely won't have. NAPA & the commercial auto parts places should have it. R-PARTS doesn't seem to have conversion fittings tho(funny).

BTW, the fittings come with permanant thread lock in the threads. once they're screwed on, there there forever. Don't forget to remove the shrader valves from the old fittings. While some conversion fittings have a rod to open the old fitting's valves, it's causes more problems than it's worth.

Hmm, Measure the diameter of the two pulleys to get the ratio. My calibrated eyeball & memory estimates a small step-down ratio for the YORK compressor, maybe 2:1.
ie: @2000 engine rpm the compressor is at 1000 rpm. I know that at 7,000 RPM it's been said that the compressors are being spun at or beyond their specs.

Here's a tip, those little rectangular A/C vents are very restrictive. Take a table knife & pull one or both of them out & you'll darn near double the airflow! Down side is you won't get much air down on your feet (but you never did...) Also, less air out of the dash vent.

One of my round2it projects is to make a plenum with high flow vents, maybe a pair of the round ones like the dash-top vents. Will probably make it so it just plugs into the existing setup in place of the std vents. That way I can pop it out & pop the original ones back in for show & winter.

You told him 'YES' of course...