360, new clutch??? | FerrariChat

360, new clutch???

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by SrfCity, Jul 3, 2004.

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  1. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,142
    Orange County, CA
    #1 SrfCity, Jul 3, 2004
    While driving and stopping in farely hot heavy traffic a beeping started as I began to take off in first. This happened several times during two different time periods today. The car is an '01, F1 with approximately 6K miles. I had it in for a CEL recently and since the car just came off warranty they gave it the once over. This obviously included checks of the OBDII which you'd think would show something up with the clutch.

    So, my question is is this an over heating warning or is the clutch shot? This only happened when starting from a stop. Any guesses?

    TIA
     
  2. solly

    solly Formula 3

    Jun 2, 2001
    1,148
    Westchester NY
    Full Name:
    Dr. Steven S.
    #2 solly, Jul 4, 2004
    Have the mechanic plug in the SD-2 unit. It will give a reading of clutch wear in % terms. I don't believe an OBDII reader can do that.

    I'm not sure if the same clutch is used on the F-1 system on the 360 Challenge cars, but I drive the hell out of my challenge car and last week hooked up an SD-2 to find only 2% clutch wear. Seems like these clutches are pretty tough. Then again challenge cars allow no clutch slippage at all, which makes them very uncomfortable to drive at slow speeds-they are very jerky. Passenger cars may allow some slippage (and more wear) in order to make for a pleasant drive. In any event the computer will tell you.
     
  3. 911Fan

    911Fan Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2004
    1,294
    Southern California
    #3 911Fan, Jul 4, 2004
    I don't think the computer-reported clutch wear percentage should be taken too literally. The computer has no way to actually measure the clutch wear. It reports a wear value which has been derived through some algorithm. Plus, a tech can set the wear value to anything he wants.

    GIGO and all that...
     
  4. budman

    budman Karting

    Dec 19, 2003
    135
    Columbia, SC
    Full Name:
    Buddy Delaney
    #4 budman, Jul 4, 2004
    As you livein Huntington you might want to check with Martin @ International Motorsports in Huntington Beach as he is very knowledgable with the 360 clutch issues.He just serviced my 1999 360 but at 14,000 miles his computer indicated that it was only worn to 50 %.He has a kevlar clutch ( $ 750.00 ) which he has had great success with.He races in the Ferrari Challenge series and helped me quite a bit with mine.Good Luck Buddy
     
  5. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    #5 davehelms, Jul 4, 2004
    The overheat warning is a calculation that is programed into the TCU. It triggers when the clutch is slipping too much over a specific amount of time and distance. When caught in traffic or using reverse, surge the throttle rather than a steady light throttle. Remember when in reverse the clutch never fully releases, so the surge and coast method will get you further with less slippage.
    Dave
     
  6. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,142
    Orange County, CA
    #6 SrfCity, Jul 5, 2004
    Thanks guys.

    OK this is what I wanted to hear, that it's an overheat warning. It seems that when I surge the throttle the car wants to lurch forward too quickly. It started when I was on a bit of an incline. It also appeared when I tried to feather it. Sounds like it will require a delicate balance. Hopefully this isn't a clutch.

    I understand that when it's a clutch the warning will start and the car will pop out of gear while driving.

    I had tried to call Martin re: this and I guess he was gone for the 4th.

    Ciao.
     
  7. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    #7 ferrarifixer, Jul 5, 2004
    solly, the challenge cars have a sintered bronze 4 paddle centre plate and are quite tough.

    Road cars have a conventional fibre plate and are not that tough.

    The wear reading, as said already, is just a calculation, and playing with the clutch travel on the SD2 will change the wear reading.

    There is a correct procedure to ensure the setting stays correct...but it's not necessary to complete the cycle and often gets ommitted for any number of reasons.......

    The SD2 can be fooled...the only way to measure clutch wear is to measure the centre plate. When new they are about 8mm. They are shot at 6.5 or less.
     
  8. solly

    solly Formula 3

    Jun 2, 2001
    1,148
    Westchester NY
    Full Name:
    Dr. Steven S.
    #8 solly, Jul 5, 2004
    Thanks. Is it an engine-out job to get to the clutch?
     
  9. rviant

    rviant Karting

    Jan 22, 2004
    229
    Bedfordshire
    Full Name:
    Richard
    #9 rviant, Jul 5, 2004
    As far as i know yes its an egine out job. just had mine done.

    Good tip to save your clutch from overheating when in stop/start situations or on an incline keep in in neutral rather than holding it in first with your foot on the brake which leads to slippage and overheating IMHO
     
  10. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,142
    Orange County, CA
    #10 SrfCity, Jul 5, 2004
    According to Martin at International, he had said earlier that it's not an engine out and that he can get to it from underneath.
     
  11. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    #11 ferrarifixer, Jul 5, 2004
    No. Clutch is about 10 hours job done, with engine in the car, including r+r of floor and bumper and exhaust

    On F1 you don't even have to take the gearbox right out....you can leave the actuator and lines connected and just shuffle the box to the back as far as it will go.

    Do need to drain the engine oil though.
     

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