Concave vs. Convex Wheels - 328 & Mondial | FerrariChat

Concave vs. Convex Wheels - 328 & Mondial

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by birddog, Sep 2, 2008.

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  1. birddog

    birddog Formula Junior

    Jun 24, 2006
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    Ed
    Ok, here's a question for those "in the know". I believe the 328 had "concave" (curved inward) wheels up until the introduction of ABS in late 1988 when they switched to "convex" (curved outward) wheels. As I understand it the Mondial was a sort of test bed for Ferrari (first with ABS, first with clutch-less trans, first with electronically adjustable suspension, etc.). I've got an '86 3.2 with metric convex wheels, but no ABS. As I understand it, ABS was introduced on the Mondial in late 1987. I personally have never seen a Mondial with concave wheels except for the Mondial 8 and QV style wheels, and all 3.2's have convex wheels that have the same appearance as the 328 convex wheels. Was Ferrari planning ahead? What's the reason for the convex wheels pre-ABS on the Mondial?
     
  2. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Nov 26, 2001
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    Snike Fingersmith
    There are 328s with convex wheels and no ABS. The ABS came later.

    FYI, I'm pretty sure the early Mondials also had convex wheels
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    #3 Steve Magnusson, Sep 2, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2008
    The wheel changeover for 328 had to do with the suspension changes that could accommodate the ABS (but a 328 with the new suspension didn't have to have ABS installed as Tillman noted).

    And even though the early Mondial wheels look more the 308 wheels, they are really in the convex family. The photos in this post:

    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137934141&postcount=1643

    show it well -- especially the 3/4 rear shot showing a 308 and Mondial parked together at the curb.
     
  4. Dino944

    Dino944 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2007
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    The switch to convex wheels on the 328 had to do with suspension changes necessitating a change in wheel offset, it was not because of ABS. The switch to convex wheels came with the 88.5 cars. Supposedly in Europe ABS was optional on the 88.5 328s, but I've never seen an 88.5 with ABS in person or in pix. In the USA, ABS was not available on 328s until the 1989 model year and then it was std equipment.

    Best regards,
    Dino
     
  5. bert308

    bert308 Formula 3

    Nov 30, 2002
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    Bert Kanters
    #5 bert308, Sep 3, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The Mondial from 1980 on had a similar suspension as the 308 but with longer A-arms therefore the need for higher offset wheels. In 1988.5 the 328 got the Mondial A-arms, not a new design but basically the 1980 Mondial design.
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  6. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    The suspension change neccesitating high offset wheels was to have a near-zero scrub radius, which eases steering effort and minimizes steering kick-back - which is critical for an ABS car.
    In 1980 on the first iteration of the Mondial cars brought the ( F1 politically driven decision to use) Michelin TRX tires with a whopping 240 section at all 4 corners with unassisted steering at the front. Despite the use of minimal scrub radius, the steering effort was high, even for a Ferrari, despite the minimum scrub radius. This started a long story of trying to make up for initial mis-steps with with Mondial. When ABS was introduced by Ferrari for the first time, the Mondial was the natural car to do it in. You need minimal scrub radius, or if the ABS differentially brakes the front wheels it can jerk the wheel out of your hand.
     
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  7. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    I would add that the ABS sensors are quite small and mounted inside the wheel. The idea that the convex wheels were needed for more room is one of those urban myths. Snj5's comments about scrub radious being important for ABS is the first I've heard of this, but I am not an engineer so will defer.
    On a more personal note, I have owned 328's with early and late suspensions and I greatly prefer the feel of the later setup, but I do like the looks of the concave mags better.

    Dave
     
  8. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    Aug 16, 2004
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    It has concave wheels and ABS. I was told by my dealer that 88.5 was significant because it was the first use of ABS in a Mondial.
    Ron
     

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