The ultimate 308 head pulling fixture | FerrariChat

The ultimate 308 head pulling fixture

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by luckydynes, Aug 19, 2008.

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  1. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #1 luckydynes, Aug 19, 2008
    Hey all,

    Some of you have mentioned you made various setups for pulling 308 heads . . .. I want to make one . . I've seen guys talk about plates that attach to the bolt patterns for the cams, etc. . . this motor doesn't have a lot of those studs left to attach to :( . . plus I was concerned about just stretching the 6mm bolts when you started hulking on the jack bolts. I have the bolt patterns to do this but would like to hear if this setup was good/great or just "okay".

    What I'm thinking about making is a couple of fixture plates . . one with the intake pattern . . one with the exhaust pattern . .. out of aluminum 'cause I can use these to grab the heads later to machine various things . . and then attach to these with some steel legs/bars that will have the jack screws . . . . was hoping just three leg/bar assemblies would do the trick meaning I'd have 6 jack screws total .. guess it won't be too much work to do 2 more if this doesn't make life "easy" but would like to hear how others made out with the tools they made . . heck send me what you made and I'll trade the favor :)

    cheers.

    Sean
     
  2. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #2 luckydynes, Aug 19, 2008
    other thing that crossed my mind was something that picks up the plug holes . . . would think that might be a pretty solid place to pull with a just a few studs? hmm

    what I'm describing in the previous post is a bit of work but I can use the tooling for other things . . . I like to let things bounce in my head for a bit before cutting (@ 3 a.m. LOL) . . been thinking 'bout a fixture for a while and I want to make something in the next couple days so it's time to cut . . input and experiences appreciated!

    thanks,

    Sean
     
  3. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #3 luckydynes, Aug 20, 2008
    any input on this? . .. I wanna make something I can use an impact gun on ;) . . head studs been soaking for a couple days in "Aerokroil" .. . didn't do what the pic's showed on the website (rust corrsion just falling off) but I do like the buzz you get off the stuff in a non ventilated area . .. no one mentioned that benefit ;)
     
  4. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #4 luckydynes, Aug 20, 2008
    I'm well underway now ... made the pieces to pick up the exhaust studs and intake studs out of 2" x 3" alum bar stock . . gonna make the actual puller that will bolt to these out of steel tommorrow and tap all 10 stud locations . .. tool will be available for rent with a massive deposit :)

    considered pulling on the spark plug holes but the first plug busted in half when I tried to pull it . . glad I didn't bid this job ;)

    cheers
     
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 fatbillybob, Aug 20, 2008
    Personally done many heads. I have never needed anything more than loose bolts then hang the engine by the head. After some time the weight of the motor usually works on the loose head and there you go. Sometimes I am impatient and hang the head and pound the block with a giant rubber hammer or sometimes a giant block of wood. That's billybobin it for you.
     
  6. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #6 luckydynes, Aug 20, 2008
    that motor didn't need new cam caps machinining like this one ;) . actually when I pulled my rebuild down one time I didn't like the wrestling match and I'd opened the head stud holes . . . I like being able to pull the head off just by hand .. yeah I plan on doing it all the time like an oil change or something right? . . no I just like picking up these trashed motors cheap and not having to spend a week tearing 'em apart .. . as a boy I tore down 5 chevys a day with an impact gun :)
     
  7. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #7 luckydynes, Aug 20, 2008
    the motor that's in my car suffered the same fire fate as this one . .. I machined out the area where the head bolts (edit: nuts) tighten and made some inserts out of 0-1 and heat treated and shrunk them in . . I was chatting with my old boss and he got me all crazy with the heat treat etc. . this time I'll just make CRS inserts but the cam caps will be a new one .. and I'll make tooling to line hone them all here at the compound . . don't need no stinking factory tools :)

    cheers
     
  8. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

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    #8 maurice70, Aug 21, 2008
    When I was rebuilding I was thinking of using the spark plug threads as well but was advised against it.I then made a puller up using all the camshaft caps and it worked a treat.I left the puller with my mechanic as I had no other need for it.The next time I see him I will take a pic if he still has it but I predict that your heads will probably be off before then :D
     
  9. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Etcetera, Aug 21, 2008
    I use a few pounds of black powder. Remove all the plugs, fill each cylinder, lite the fuse and run like a *ucker.

    I just did an engine like this 3 days ago. I'll finish the project when the heads finally land.
     
  10. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #10 luckydynes, Aug 21, 2008
    that was kinda my past experiences :)
     
  11. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #11 luckydynes, Aug 21, 2008
    yep hoping today :)
     
  12. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

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    #12 chrismorse, Aug 21, 2008
    Hey Sean,

    Great Idea. Just about every time i buggered a part, it was because it was stuck tighter than the hinges of hell or i didn't have the right tool to get the job done. I do not look forward to banging or prying on things to get them apart.

    I'll come looking for your tool just as soon as i trip over pile of money to do the rebuild, (cams, pistons & head work) or when the sodium valves grenade the motor. (I genuflect thrice a day, towards the general direction of the factory - with supplicataions for the lives of my sodium valves).

    Thanks again,
    chris
     
  13. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    #13 Artvonne, Aug 21, 2008
    Would we agree that the 6mm studs should be able to pull over 1000 pounds before the aluminum yields? I just counted 36 studs on one head. Even at half that value they would contribute a combined effort of very high load to push the head off without harming anything.
     
  14. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #14 luckydynes, Aug 21, 2008
    there's not that many studs (edit: left) to attach to :(

    also I think the heat might of weakened whatever are left

    it's gonna take some considerable force to get this head off 'cause the aluminum has shrunk around the head studs from the heat . . . tackled the same issue on the motor that's in my car but didn't have to make new cam caps like I will for this one.
     
  15. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    #15 wrxmike, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I've attached a pic of the head puller I made to remove the cylinder head on a 412, I've made the same type of puller for a 308 ( but i don't have a picture handy )
    It's made of 12mm (1/2") steel and is drilled with numerous accurately positioned holes that allow the cam cap mounting studs and the cam cover mounting studs to pass through the plate and be secured with 6mm nuts. There are probably 50+ studs holding the 12mm plate to the head.

    The head is pushed off block by a number of larger bolts that push against the tops of the cylinder head studs. These are also visble in the picture. The bolts pass through holes drilled in the plate above all the head studs, the thread is provided by nuts welded to the plate. This is easier than tapping a thread in to the plate ( and can be replaced easily too. )

    To center the bolt on the top of the stud and avoid damage to the top of the stud, I use a large ball bearing - (this works on the 308, where the top of the stud is in a hole and the ball can't roll off)

    To pull the head off, just tighten each screw a little in sequence, the flat plate distributes the load and it will lift a corroded head off the block. I would never attach a puller to the spark plug holes, too much chance of pulling the threads.

    The downside is that this puller can take a while to make , and that the location of the holes required for a left and right hand head is different. so you'll need 2 pullers , one for each side :(

    The cam cover gaskets and head gaskets can be used as layout (guide) templates for drilling the holes, a set of calipers and a drill press is essential , as well as a file to enlarge holes that are 'not quite right"

    It would be nice & easy to make these on a CNC mill !

    M
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  16. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #16 luckydynes, Aug 21, 2008
    I would've seriously considered going this route since I already have all the hole locations for these heads . .. I've already got most of it done now picking it up off the intake and exhuast . . . I also didn't have a piece of plate big enough just kicking around the shop . . . I've got all the material in stock to do it this way.

    thanks for chiming in . . . might make one of those for getting heads off that aren't as messed up as this one . . . don't have to pull the intake either with that plate.
     
  17. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    #17 wrxmike, Aug 21, 2008
    Let us know how you go, and post some pics.

    Good luck :)

    PS The blackpowder idea sounds like a winner!

    M
     
  18. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #18 smg2, Aug 21, 2008
    someone here said they used rope, run a length into the cyl via the spark plug hole and turn the motor over by hand. seems fairly doable and simple, the flat plane crank would make for even pushing. wonder though about when they're really stuck on, been there.
     
  19. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #19 luckydynes, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    here's a pic for now . . box of 3/4-10 nuts showed up for me to weld on for the jacks :)

    I was gonna weld it together and decided to bolt it .. . much smarter in the long run 'cause I doubt all heads are the same.

    cheers .. it's about that time I think :)
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  20. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #20 luckydynes, Aug 21, 2008
    this motor ain't turning ;)
     
  21. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 fatbillybob, Aug 21, 2008
    Sean,

    Elegant design while quite manly and beefy. I like it!!!! That head is coming off or I'm going to push those studs right through the block.
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #22 Rifledriver, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
    Break the pistons before the head comes off on one where the corrosion is bad around the studs.

    Heat the head to 300F and they come off. With a good head plate attached to a large # of cap and VC studs and a hot head it would come off pretty easily.
     
  23. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #23 luckydynes, Aug 22, 2008
    made life so easy it was almost anti climatic pulling the head off :)
     
  24. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #24 luckydynes, Aug 22, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  25. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 fatbillybob, Aug 22, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
    Nice fixture...you should rent that thing to Fchat members. All in favor say "I"

    BTW I like heat too like Rifledriver. But there is always someguy who thinks a little heat = molten aluminum. I think of judicious use of heat like judicious use of the hammer as an advanced technique.
     
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