Anyone have a manufacturer number for the Kluber grease for the 348 flywheel assy?
This is what I have 70000789 for the part number. I just did the Flywheel on one of my 348's. Have fun!!!
Don't want to look like an idiot here... but I know there are some who leave the flywheels dry, and others who replace the grease... I'm getting ready to do my clutch, and my flywheel is beginning to lose it's grease...what's the downside if I pull it apart, clean the grease out, and leave it dry? Mike in Kuwait
Hi Mike, My understanding is that the grease has two functions: it balances out the last bit of imbalance on the flywheel since Ferrari only balanced them to within 2 grams. And it makes the shock absorption function of the flywheel work. I am not sure about the last part, but if you look at a 348 clutch, they do not have the little springs where they receive torque, unlike just about every other street car clutch ever made. Supposedly that is where the internal workings, including springs, and the grease of the flywheel come into play, but how that works is beyond me. Bottom line: best results seem to be obtained by having each of the parts of the flywheel finely balanced after disassembly and cleaning, then re-packing it also. Enough grease to do the job, and a new o-ring is only about $100. I got mine from GT Car Parts. I have not yet done the job, so that is why I am not exactly the voice of experience, but I have done a lot of reading on this forum. Word is that this shop, Penny Racing in Auburn, CA has the jigs already set up to balance the 348 flywheel. Good luck.
Thanks Randy.... appreciate the feedback, and the balancing shop info.... Now, I wonder what it costs to ship a fly wheel to CA.....???? Mike in Kuwait
Not sure where the 2g balance by Ferrari came from, my 355 was nowhere near that. (plus I would say that 2g sounds almost perfect) Some info here from my 355 flywheel rebuild which may be helpful. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152737
Strange thing is that Ferrari dealer procedure for putting the Kluber grease into the fly wheel is to undo the two bolts at the rear of the flywheel and just pump it in till full, with out stripping the assembly. Its true just ask them So that throws any accurate measurement of the grease content out the window. Playing devils advocate only, i ask these questions. So where's the logic in pumping in the grease from the back? Why is this the official procedure? And why is it now that owners are ignoring official procedure and stripping the assembly? .......well i know the answer to that last question its to be thorough yes. So i will ask were did the stripping bit come from? There has been much talk about doing things as per factory, like taking engines out for belt changes ect ect. So why not pump in the grease into the flywheel assembly, as per dealer? Remember i am playing devils advocate only.
On my 348, it was not possible to remove the plugs from the back of the flywheel without removing the flywheel from the housing. If you have the flywheel in your hands, it takes about 5 minutes to open it up, and then you can properly remove the old, diluted grease, clean it up, and install new seals before re-greasing it. If you just pump new grease into it, that's a VERY short-term fix. I don't understand why a dealer would do that, it would just leak and turn into a "comeback".
I totally agree with what you are saying. And its dealers mate, not just one. On the 355s they remove the rear bolts and pump it in while on the car if i am not mistaken. Did not know the 348s were different.
I have heard that at least one well-regarded independent Ferrari mechanic does not weigh the grease - he just packs 'er full. He does not however do it in the "back" He disassembles the flywheel like any sensible person would do, cleans it out, packs the "bowl" side with as much grease as it looks like it will hold, then re-assembles with a new o-ring. Without the o-ring, what is the point? And, for my time and trouble, I am going to go ahead and replace all the fiddly little seals and smaller o-rings while I am "in there". Ya know? I mean, hey, I keep hearing about "diluted" grease. What could it possibly be diluted by if not gear oil? Looking at the cut-a-way drawing, I'm damned if I can see how gear oil could possibly migrate to the flywheel, but, WTF, in for a penny, etc.... Besides all those parts are very inexpensive. Like $20-$40 for the lot. I bought a scale to weigh my grease, so, might as well use it. Believe me, I am going to err on the high side though. Plus get everything balanced first. Sweet! (I hope... )
Lots of mis-information here. There are many FC posts search them. 1) Ferrari TSB increased grease amount is about 250grams = 1/2 of a kluber grease can how convienent 2) must have grease or car will not hot start due to rattles tricking crank sensors 3) grease allows dual mass function and prevents rattles 4) 5mm holes in back of FW pack can be used in a pinch to pump in grease. I have done it but this is a temporary fix and a neat trick to diagnose a hot start problem being caused by an oiled greasepack allowing dual mass flywheel rattles 5) you can modify the flywheel pack to be solid. I've run a 348 racecar like that for many years no damage resulted 6) triple seal failure allows oil to thin greasepack = rattles and hot start problems 7) kluber is a funny formulation that is high temp and maintains its viscosity over the operational temp range to hold the parts. Other grease have worked because I have used them when I was too lazy to wait for kluber to be shipped. 8) grease melts with operational temperature and the flywheel pack self balances by centrifugal force . The only time you need to balance is when you covert to a solid flywheel pack. Hope this helps...
Enjoy the fun! http://picasaweb.google.com/RebelBanker/Ferrari348SingleDiscCluth/photo#s5189179765719366434
High praise for the Honorable fatbillybob! That is a very cogent summary of the situation. No Doubt needs to adds it to the 348 primer. Also, sir, you have saved Mike and I much hassle and $ getting our flywheels balanced. Additional high praise for the Honorable RebelBanker! The picture sequence is first rate and takes the "pucker factor" right out of the impending operation. Either of you gentlemen ever get to the East Bay Area in Northern California, please call 510-710-3344, and lunch is on me. Best regards, Randy
I have a side note to add to fatbillybob's remarks about hot starting. I was having terrible cold starting problems, probably caused by my flywheel "rattling", (and no doubt exacerbated my lack of fully functional engine mounts). However, I found an easier workaround than temporary grease injection - just press the clutch pedal. Somehow that eliminates the rattle, and then my car would start when cold.
My clean work has garnered me both an invite to Kuwait and NoCal in just 24 hours Thank you for the supportive words. Maybe someday I'll put more effort into it so that it may help others here. Thank you, Sir.
Some great responses on this thread guys. But i STILL wonder why Ferrari dealers are just pumping in the Grease into the back with out measurement or stripping the flywheel down.
As fatbillybob pointed out, the grease goes away because it gets diluted with (engine?) oil. Another allegedly contributing factor: the large o-ring gets tired. Except for the triple seals, none of that can be corrected without the complete teardown. My car is 18 years old and has, I am pretty sure, never had its flywheel serviced. I suppose on a younger car, or one that I knew for sure had been fully serviced in the last 5 - 10 years, I might consider just replacing the triple seals and pumping in fresh grease.
I Have heard what he said and i will point out that i have striped a few 355 flywheels over the past 5 years, my first one in 2004. As well as 355 engine rebuilds. So i know about what the grease does I was simply (as Devils advocate remember) asking as to why a dealer would simply remove the two rear bolts and pump the grease into the flywheel. So far RebelBanker has offered one lightly reason, because its tedious. I would also personally add because thats there (Ferraris) standard operating procedure. And the stripping of the fly wheel has now been accepted as the only meticulous way of doing it. Mainly in the large due to Ferrari forums like this one It certainly did not originate from the Ferrari dealerships. The Internet is a powerful media.
My point was that under certain circumstances it might actually be OK to replace the grease by pumping it in the holes. After I do my flywheel completely, if it starts rattling again five years later, I would probably just replace the triple seals and pump in new grease. Trying to say that the although it certainly seems that the dealers we are discussing are not treating their customers honorably, that doesn't mean that the idea of replacing grease without tearing down the flywheel is totally worthless. Maybe.
Huh? How does brake fluid get in there? The triple seals are between the inner drive shaft connected between the engine and the flywheel, and the outer drive shaft connected between the clutch and the transmission. The only brake fluid in that vicinity is in the clutch slave cylinder, but as far as I can tell, that fluid never gets between the two drive shafts. Am I missing something?
The throwout/slave bearing shares the same fluid reservoir as the break fluid, on the 355 anyway. The bearing is in the bell housing that holds the clutch and flywheel. The bearing leaks past the integral seals.
