360 value going down the toilet???

Euro cars and 1999 models tend not to bring as much money as some of the other years.

Ray

 

prices are down, values are up. get one.

 

I wonder what's happening with the 348 and 355 market?

 

IMO a good car for the money and it can be modded.

 

I've been watching them all. The 348 market is just barely dropping month to month, to where they are going for about the same as nice 328. The spider's a hair more 50-60K prices. The 355's seem to be dropping a bit faster, obviously with 99 spiders at the top of the heap at asking prices around 80-95K, but these too are dropping as more 360s are selling for lower prices, and buyers are aware of the increased maintenance costs of a 355 vs. other F cars. But the early model 355's are down around 60K. Some I've even seen lower.

With the 360's the biggest drops recently I've seen is in asking prices of later model spiders, the 03's and 04's. Coming down fast for moderate mileage cars (8-15K) to the 130-145K point. Sure, there are still folks (like the 05 spider at Domani motors) that are asking 200K plus for them, but it's been there for almost a year at that price. It'll never sell there.

Let me also say that the price of the 360 spiders isn't holding me back. I have to have a new house built to get the green-light from the boss. I would still drop 160K for a well sorted 360 spider today if I could. To me, the money that I'll save by buying the spider at the end of 08/early 09 is not worth the 'not driving a 360 for a year factor’ You can't put a price on that. If I could, I'd buy ramvfin2003's 360 spider now. it seems like a well sorted car for a very fair price.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/ferrariads/showproduct.php?product=655&cat=2


Having said that, I'm bearish on what's going to happen to the 360 over the next two years. There are SO MANY out there with more coming up for sale monthly, plus the economic slowdown, the increase in people selling 430's AND the 430 replacement on the horizon all point to the 360 having a continued steep drop in its sale prices.

 

According to the Ilux network the wholesale asking price for the spider and in whole has increased by 17% over the last month (They do over $580 millon last year,only selling car $100k and up) that means that if you want a good clean 360 spider that has not been passed up by other dealers, the prices that you are looking at on the Spider will be $25k short from the dealers option to buy wholesale, in other words as on the dealer to dealer auction site the wholesale dealers are asking 17% more to offer there car to sell to another dealer!There are only 9 360 spiders on the wholesale networks over the last 30 days...thus many of the marketed cars are not on the market, because if they ware, the wholesale cars that are on the market would be about the same number not 9..if anyone would like to see the blog posted please pm me I will send it..but I can not post the blog on the board...

What this means to the average buyer is this...when we dealers go buy cars, we are buying from brokers and wholesalers and somtimes trade-ins...So when you the customer comes to the dealership and say I want a MY03 spider for example, and I want these options, the dealer will go to work, by talking with all the same brokers and wholesale networks..we all know each other and all work the same networks...anyway, when your dealer goes out to find your car the wholesale price he pays will be 17% higher then it was in Dec. or guess what..the dealer or broker that has the car you are looking for will not sell it, thus, the dealer you are working with can not sell you the car! If you do the math on some these market cars they simply do not work..If a dealer owns a car for $150k they can not sell to your dealer for $135k...and thats what is happening right now...the prices are on the rise again..Ferrari's do not fall in value 2.87% like other cars...

Once again anyone PM and I will show you all nine cars on the wholesale networks..from all 3 major sources....I also want to point out that what I am saying here has no barrening what the fact that I am a dealer..example if the retail prices are falling, then so are the wholesale numbers...we dealers make the same, if we pay $95k or $195k..it's all reltive and If I could sell cars the are AVC'ed at $150k for $118k I would but as you can see I would not be in business long...but I guess that expcted...

 

You know ebay is a really good measure of the market. I just bought my 2000- 360F1 with 18k miles back in Nov for about 120k. I had been watching the market and looking at ebay for over a year before I settled on mine from Sport Auto in NC, my local dealer. From a numbers perspective, what I can remember is that there were about 20ish- 360's on ebay last year this time. This summer it was up to 40 or so, at any one time you did a search on them. This fall was about 50 cars, and now it's up to 70 cars for sale on ebay! I am no financial analyst, but I am guessing this fall will be the best time in many years to buy a 360.

Hunter

 

I would agreee, that now is the best time because the price are higher on the wholesale..and that what we dealers pay...every Ferrari dealer in the country reviced the same blog...just go look at Ferrari USA website, the cars are up! But you are about right in price based on miles and future resale at with 18-25k on the OD!

 

Ferrari Market letter shows a steady decline in the asking prices of 360s, both spiders and Modenas. And modern Ferrari's most certainly DO depreciate every year. Maybe not to the degree of other cars, but numbers don't lie. Market value for 360 spiders 8 years ago was well in the 200,000s. Now I'm not arguing with what you're saying about the wholesale costs. You're a dealer and have access to those number, I don't. I do feel those dealers that have bought the cars they are trying to sell for those prices now are going to get SOAKED.

I'll make you a bet; let's check this thread 10 months from now and see where the spider prices are. I'd guess 15% less, at least, of what they are now.

 

So you really think with all the factors I listed that 360 spider prices are going to go UP?! It would be interesting to see something like that happen and break all trends regarding late model exotic car depreciations.

And please don't take any of my postings personal. I've seen the cars you sell and think you sell only the best and would feel very comfortable paying a premium from you knowing I was getting that top notch, no stories car!

 

I would not say you are wrong, all I am pointing out that the wholesale cost is up by 17% this month! That is a fact, when the cost for a dealer rises, then the purchase price rises! The numbers do not lie...What happens when a Ferrari or Lamborghini dealer can not get the number of out of the car they need to cover the loss (since many dealers are small they can not dump $10 in 3 other cars to make up for the loss)...in months past this was true, dealer would dump there cars so to speak...and right now and over the last 3 months there have been an over abunced of Euro cars on the market...But right now, the dealers according to the trading networks are holding at there price, and are not dumping the cars...yesterday I was looking for a under 10k mile clean car red/black or yellow/black...with options and clean history! I could not find one, and the ones I did find my wholesale cost would be higher then what i need to sell the car for at this price!

Losses for dealers have been higher during the last quater of 2007, and now they must hold there gross, thus the 17% higher asking price on the wholesale side, if they can not get that then the market suffers because they can not sell the car!..Now keep in mind the cars that are trading right now, and they are selling at the higher number on the wholesale side, will not be seen for 15 to 20 days before you start to see these price reflected in the retail side...these cars are supply and demand driven, so as more belive they can buy cheaper and begin to seek out and make phone calls, the demand is percived to go up, and in many cases it does...So in short, lol, the wholesale number have incread by 17% over the last 30 days..expcet to see the retail prices on US cars, that are complete no story cars, with no minor issues or big miles to increase..

 

Thank you, and I work very hard to amke sure my cars are the most complete and best value for the pedigree on the market! many here can tell you that if you come to me, with a good clean full history car to trade-in I will pay up higher then most dealers will, thats a risk I take because I feel thats the only way I can sell a here on fchat and other boards!

So no offence taken at all! Infact thank you for complament!

 

Winter always brings lower values to convertibles. The combination of the economy slowing down, money isn't being spent. The people that HAVE to unload their cars, of course they will let them go cheap. But to say that values are going to drop 15%??? No way... We all saw what I would say was the first sub-100's Spider, and I think it was a great deal, but its not the norm. When the economy turns around, the prices will stabilize to "true market value".

 

When I'm saying 15% I'm talking about the 04-05 spiders that folks are still asking 170-200K or so. Yes, I do think these prices will be 15% lower towards the end of this year.

Now was do I think those 100K Modena's will be down to 85K in 8 months, but surely the will be a bit lower.

 

It appered that way over the last couple of months..but according to whloesale networks it is not the case today...if me as a dealer wanted a 360 inorder to buy that car today at MY cost would be 17% higher...

 

I appreciate "Premier"'s input and respectfully disagree from a individual buyers perspective. Dealers are stuck in their arena, buying from auction-brokers. Some have inventory they have paid too much for and either will be forced to carry the car or sell it. For those not involved in "retail", sit back and watch prices drop. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that more product is on the market because of both the economic and psychological realities of troubled times. Some of us buy cars when we are on the edge of solvency and when the caca hits the blades we have to get rid of everything costing money. Secondly, fewer are able-willing to take chances , i.e. paying cash or obligating themselves to expensive toys, again have the effect of leaving product on the shelves. There is no doubt that the average 360 or 430 will be selling for less next month than this month and probably continue this trend thorughout the year. In capitalist markets we live or die based on supply and demand. Best

 

You know you may be right, and from a buyers stand point you may be right..all I can tell you that the wholesale prices are up 17% and that is a fact! That means the wholesale cars being bought today will be higer in price over the next 15-20 days...or the 360 market gose flat dealers hold on there cars, and no one buys because they own the cars deeper...and wait it out until equity points are hit where makes since to sell not a loss...Yes you have seen prices fall..but go to dupont registry .com and other sites and look at current inventory...go year by year...see what the asking price is..and true selling price is not 15% lower then asking price...then pick up the phone and see how many cars are truly sitting at the dealers lot ready for you to come in and look at it and take a test drive or can be brought to them for you view..I think you would surprised...

 

I love these threads. It will be interesting to see what happens to the value of all the ferrari's in general when you have new car prices slowly getting to 100k and over for non exotics. Id take a ferrari any day over a benz or a bmw.

 

Chris,
With all due respect, 9 cars is not a representative sample. At the retail end, there is no way buyers are going to pay 30K more than Dec. prices for a spider when there are so many available for less. It may well be that these 9 cars are owned by dealers who are buried in them. The fact is, there are a lot more cars for sale, and the asking prices have slipped quite a bit. I went to cars.com the other day and they had nearly 800 Ferraris, over 500 of which were 360's and 430's. At the low end, I saw prices significantly lower than a few months ago and late year 360's were lower as well. For the record, I do not own or have any plans to buy a 360. I do own a 2005 430 and I estimate it's worth at 15K less than, say, last Sept. With supply increasing, I expect the value will continue to slide. Anecdotally, there have been a few posters on Fchat recently who are potential buyers of 360's or 430's but have decided to wait because of declining values. This will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Best,
Dave

 

Thank you! Thats what I am trying to say there is not as many cars as people think for sale..most dealers leave there ads up...to get more leads!! My point about the 9 cars on the wholesale market means that there is no way there 500 cars on the retail side...that is another fact! Also the avg. they have come up with are not based on the nine cars on the wholesale list today and though are not long tiome on the market..infact most networks are daily updated..they taking true numbers...But lets say there are truly 500 cars out there that have lost 430k in value since sept...now that the dealer networks have made there known alot more cars will be hitting the wholesale lanes because dealer can make more wholesaleing then retailing...17% more...

 

I think that the percentages can be very misleading. For example, if one of the cars in the sample was in horrible condition with 50,000 miles, wouldn't it's cost significantly affect the average price, since it's such a small sample? Wouldn't the mean or the median shed some light on the values as well?

 

as of today the median price on the wholesale side is $146,260

 

Having recently purchased a great 360 coupe, I have continued to watch pricing and trends carefully. My observation of the current situation is that spider prices are taking their usual winter plunge, likely to level off in a couple months when the weather warms up. Coupe prices also falling but not as steeply as spider prices. I see both definitely dropping and I believe that trend will continue for a while given the economic situation already noted.

But look more closely at the really low priced cars. They are almost invariably Euro or ‘99-‘01 models, even more so for the lesser optioned examples. Most buyers have discovered there are a variety of factory campaign and upgrade issues with the earlier models so the safest & easiest is an ’02 or later. Also, there are many more sparsely optioned cars than really nice ones with all the goodies and a good service history. The heavily optioned cars hold a much higher value. Low miles can be a factor but smart buyers know it’s not that important.

Basically, it appears to me if you will settle for a ’99-‘01 (and/or a Euro) car with common colors, few options and service history you’re comfortable with, there are plenty of choices and prices are dropping. If you want a really nice, fully documented, nicely optioned ’02 or later with particular colors, there are a lot fewer choices and the prices remain pretty firm.

 

I've been watching the prices very closely for the last 6 months. I'm going back and forth between a 360 and a 355. From what I see the 355s look to drop maybe another 10K and then level off. I think the '99 F1 Spider will command top dollar in the high 80s to high 90s range. Fioranos are in a league of their own, same with a CS. But for 360s it seems to be another issue. I'm seeing more and more 99-01 Modenas in the 110-120 range. Usually miles and options being a determinate factor. Lake Forest and Ferrari of San Fran both had cars in this range, I think they still do. My best guess is the preference for a Spider over a Modena by the general purchasers out there. At the other end of the spectrum is the 02 and newer cars, especially the Spider. These are all over the place from 130 to 190. I can guess that reliability issues with the variometer and such plays a factor, but honestly I am surprised by the price some command out there. I'm guessing that the bottom end 360 will meet the top end 355, which seems to make sense in some strange way. I am not making any judgments on this. Just my guess based on what I am seeing. Those of you selling, I hope you get every penny for your car. For us buyers, may we get the best car for the money!