360--new rotors and pads...pics and questions... | FerrariChat
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360--new rotors and pads...pics and questions...

Discussion in '360/430' started by brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007.

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  1. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #1 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi fellas.

    While my car was in a shambles on the floor of my newly painted garage, I had very good access to the brakes. I went ahead and dug in and replaced the pads and rotors. Pretty straight forward really. I have a few suggestions:

    1. Be sure to release the tension plate than holds the line to the car--you'll need the room to move the caliper over once you release it
    2. I used a nail punch and mini-phillips to knock the pins out of the calipers--worked great--just gently and conscious of where you're hammering
    3. I used a couple of mini vices to push the caliper pistons in so I could squeeze the new pads in on the new rotors--or they won't fit. These little vice fit absolutely perfectly and even had some rubberized material to prevent them from scratching your paint. I knew I'd need 'em on day.
    4. You'll have to release the valve on the calipers so the oil bleeds ever so slightly when you put the squeeze on them or they won't budge
    5. Yeah, you'll be bleeding the brakes

    QUESTION: can I bleed them without the SD controller? I was just going to have my wife push the pedal while I bled. Please weigh in ASAP!!!

    6. Don't touch anything with your dirty hands. If you do, wipe off the crud with windex or rubbing alcohol. I lightly sanded the rotors anyway as there was some crud on them from transport--something you don't need to do.

    7. I replaced the OEM's with Porterfields (pads) so the brake sensor is useless. Just wrap it around and get it out of the way (red/orangish wire). Pull it off the old pads with a pair of pliars or pry it off.
    8. When putting the pins back in, they will come to a hard stop when they seat as you gently hit them in--that's when you stop (be gentle with your taps-you'll feel it come to a hard stop).

    Front are done and I'll probably do the rears next week. The garage floor, headlights and bumper have done beat my a$$. I want to drive so this thing is going back together. Oh, not to mention I don't have a second set of floor jacks either. What kind of self-respecting mechanic am I?

    Cheers~
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  2. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    #2 SoftwareDrone, Dec 19, 2007
    It's not mandatory to bleed the brakes. Simply remove the cap from the brake reservior, then have someone monitor the fluid level as you tighten up the clamps around the pistons, siphoning off fluid as the level rises to the top.
     
  3. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    #3 RayJohns, Dec 19, 2007
    Yes, you can. I did it on my 355 no problem when installing the larger brembo brakes. Just add fluid to the master cylinder as you flush the lines (using the normal method). Should be no problem. Put a clear tube on the nipple if you can, so you can see the bubbles (if any) coming out of the line. Open bleeder, push the pedal down, close the bleeder, release pedal, add fluid, repeat.

    Ray
     
  4. masar

    masar Formula 3

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    #4 masar, Dec 19, 2007
    You are realy amazing with all these pictures and instruction. Again very good job! Thanks for sharing....
     
  5. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #5 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007
    I tried to push the fluid back up through the system and it would not move; one piston after another would wiggle around. I'll make another attempt on the rear. Good to know it can be done, I just couldn't get the pistons to cooperate. Where's my hammer??

    Thanks Petr.
     
  6. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

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    #6 mrpcar, Dec 19, 2007
    All the Porsche guys use some sort of power bleeder system. For example http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html

    Pumping the pedal to bleed the brakes is actually a really bad for the master cylinder, since when you pump the brakes the master cylinder piston travels a lot future than it normally travels and the less travelded piston area may be pitted and cause damaged to the seal and failure of the master cylinder.

    FWIW, after you change the brakes make sure you pump the brakes several times before you start to roll off to the street as you would have no brakes at all until the caliper piston is extended out.
     
  7. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #7 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007
    Good information. Thanks a bunch. I'm checking into the bleeder. I still need to know if I can bleed the brakes myself as the manual states you need a SD to do it (dealer item only folks). Anyone do it themselves, successfully?
     
  8. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #8 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007

    Just saw this. Thanks Ray.
     
  9. mrpcar

    mrpcar Formula 3

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    #9 mrpcar, Dec 19, 2007
    I don't know the answer for the f-car, but I can only cross reference it to the Porsche cars. As on the Porsche shop manual it says to bleed the brakes with the factory PST-2 unit. I have done number of flushes and bleeds without using the PST-2 unit from Porsche. I believe the PST-2 unit activated the ABS pump while bleeding to bleed out any air bubbles that's trapped inside the ABS pump.

    So assuming that you didn't introduce any air bubble into the ABS unit (not letting the reservoir drain out), then you should be ok.

    There is actually another way to bleed out any air bubble in the ABS unit without the factory diagnostic computer. Go out and drive the car and cause the ABS to fire. (wet road, or sandy road) and then bleed the brakes again immediately, you might need to do this repeatly to get all the air bubble out of the ABS system.

    Again, this may not be the answer for a F-car, but it works for the p-cars.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 Steve Magnusson, Dec 19, 2007
    Better to not do this way if possible -- it just pushes the old fluid and crude back up the lines. Open the bleeders to let the old fluid out as you did at the front.
     
  11. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #11 brokenarrow, Dec 19, 2007
    I hear you.
     
  12. mr_bock

    mr_bock Formula 3

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    #12 mr_bock, Dec 19, 2007
    I had a Power Bleeder kit, but none of the reservoir adapters fit.... I found out that the OEM brake reservoir comes with the screw on cap, etc... and only cost about $20. I took apart the cap, drilled a hole for a hose fitting and used epoxy to fix in place. Now I can power bleed the system as a one person operation!!!

    No special tools required.
     
  13. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #13 brokenarrow, Dec 20, 2007
    That's cool.

    Beer, pizza and I await your anxious arrival. Oh, why don't you bring that bleeder thingie along with you...

    B~
     
  14. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #14 brokenarrow, Dec 20, 2007
    I got a question for you guys: can I use the dot 4 fluid I bought from Ferrari today on the fronts, and then the remaining on the back next week?

    I read where the fluid must be freshly opened. I don't recall it having a spoilage date on it like my milk. Any thoughts fellas??

    Maybe I should fridge it after opening. :)
     
  15. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    #15 J. Salmon, Dec 20, 2007
    It will be fine for that time, just seal it back as tight as you can. The fluid absorbs moisture from the air, which will drop the boiling point. What you don't want to do is pick up that bottle of brake fluid that has been on the shelf for 4 years and use it. I don't think a week will make a big difference.
     
  16. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #16 brokenarrow, Dec 20, 2007
    Great to know. Thanks for sharing the information.
     
  17. Viper01GTS

    Viper01GTS Karting

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    #17 Viper01GTS, Dec 21, 2007
    Those calipers look EXACTLY the same as the stock GEN2 viper front brembo calipers.
     
  18. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #18 brokenarrow, Dec 21, 2007
    I drove the car today, about 70 miles all said. The new Porterfields feel very good on the car. I can certainly feel a difference in the braking power and am looking forward to doing the rears tomorrow.

    The jack i bought from Costco about two years ago sprung a leak at the front seal---it's toast. Sad really, as the jack looks brand new; all shiney and aluminum. I'm not taking any chances with a leaking jack that's for sure.

    My wife is picking up another jack of higher quality when she's out Christmas shopping. I should have it tonight and be able to put it to use tomorrow. I'll post pics of the rears too.
     
  19. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #19 brokenarrow, Dec 22, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The rears are a different animal as they have the emergency brake attached that also contains its own pads and caliper requiring additional work the remove the rotors, not to mention the additional caliper.

    As I started, I decided to use the pneumatic equipment to cut down on the time, and boy did it help--ripping the bolts and nuts off where necessary. I use it to put them on, but torque by hand to ensure accurate tightness.

    PIC 1,2 & 3: I bought this bleeder at O'Reilly's for $5.99. The dang thing didn't fit on the fittings so I heated the silicone up and pushed a screwdriver into it to stretch it--worked fine after that. Oh, cool hose splitter to do both sides of the caliper at once. This pic is of the front so you can see how it works. Also, it has a magnetic piece so the jar attaches to whatever metal surface you have. I liked it right next to the caliper.

    PIC 4 is of the arm that attaches to the hub carrier where the caliper is located. This MUST be removed so you can swing the hub out and gain access to the two bolts that hold the emergency brake caliper to the hub. I did not remove the emergency cable, I was able to easily work around it. This is an interesting design as it provides incredible access to toeing-in the rear wheels. It's a pain to get to as the little 6mm are hard to get to.

    PIC 5 & 6: Okay, put the lug back into the rotor/hub and use it as a foot press to leverage your weight against the two 8mm bolts holding the emergency rotor on. Neat trick and it works since my pneumatic wouldn't get in there. Note my foot at the left and hand on the top of the picture. Also, the emergency cables at the bottom, untouched and in place. Once it's off, you can dangle it and the pads stay in place. The Ferrari mechanic told me they never need replacing. He said he's replaced on pair in ten years.

    PIC 7, 8, 9 & 10: Here's the naked hub as it appears after you take off the everything. Now you can install the rotor, then the emergency brakes/caliper (squeeze 'em on), then the main caliper.
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  20. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #20 brokenarrow, Dec 22, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    PIC 1: The OEM's are on the left, the Porterfields on the right. That is not a crack on the OEM's, but a ridge caused by wear.

    PIC 2: Slipped the pads right in after giving them the squeeze.

    PIC 3: There's one of my pneumatics saving me time with those loooong threaded bolts.

    PIC 4: Check out the ridge left in the old rotor--toast.

    PIC 5: Put it all together and you are back in business.

    PIC 6: I bled the back brakes and look what came out...this fluid was changed 6 months ago. Bleeding them is probably a good idea eventhough you may not need to. It's easy and worth the extra effort.
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  21. since15

    since15 Karting

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    #21 since15, Dec 23, 2007
    OWNED
    Now that's a DIY.
     
  22. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    #22 brokenarrow, Dec 23, 2007
    It's all fun! Cheers~
     
  23. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
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    #23 SoftwareDrone, Oct 13, 2012
    Torque specs for the calipers?
     
  24. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie

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    #24 rbellezza, Oct 14, 2012
    Fantastic write up ... really ! I will have to do the same job soon, where did you purchase rotors and pads ?
     
  25. dadswrld

    dadswrld Karting

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    #25 dadswrld, Oct 14, 2012
    Great Job and nice write up!!!

    I like to know and see that people are not afraid to get in and work on these cars. Knowing that most people may not have the comfort level to service their own car, especially a exotic, I think once you've done one change of fluids or mod, you will feel more comfortable.

    Given the wealth of information on the net and forums like these where people are willing to share, anything can be accomplished.

    The pics and documentations are priceless for others who don't know.

    Enjoy your ride!
     
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