Ferrari? Why all of the maintenance?

I've been a regular poster for over 4 years and I don't own a Ferrari. I have several Corvettes and numerous other car and truck projects but no Ferrari yet. Unfortunately, (in my opinion), the coolest of the Ferrari cars are the older models that are now horribly expensive museum pieces. A Daytona or 275GTB will set you back a king's ransom. The earlier models are essentially unobtainable without a BIG wallet and inside connections. A 308 is still one of my personal favorite designs, but many consider it an overgrown Fiat and the timing belt maintenance problems seem to be like a constant ticking time bomb.
The modern era cars do not thrill me. The maintenence problems seem to stem from the basic design differences between American and Italian cars. The big American iron cars represent the land of plenty where design problems were simply solved with MORE metal and MORE horsepower. The Italian cars were designed with more finesse and delicate utilization of materials. A completely different design thought process. Delicate designs require more pampering and maintenance. The Ferrari maintenance issues add a dark cloud of concern over any potential purchase. Hobby car ownership should be fun and enjoyable, not full of hassles and expense. The Ferrari weather still looks somewhat gloomy from my viewpoint. Everybody says that Ferraris should be driven, but many spend their time in the maintenance or restoration shop. Like any noble steed, their time behind the plow is long gone. They are mostly pampered beasts lovingly groomed and stored therefore only occasionally enjoying an outing that brings back the glory of the old days.

 

I'm in the same boat as you (although I already have the Porsche and with high miles has been a wonderfully fun car (97 C4S.....track equiped!))
My understanding is that they dry out from lack of use and end up failing much more prematurely than normal use would allow. I am looking (possibly) for a high milage 348. I bought my 993 very "right" and am hoping for the same in a 348. I too am without a dealer (3+ hours away), but miles don't bother me.

 

I suppose it's cheaper than marrying and/or divorcing a high-maintenace woman.

 

In that same light, let me respond as such.....
Knowledge and wisom are gained only after considering the information source. An Eskimo might lead you to believe that its not really "that" cold in Alaska.

Yes Porsche have tight spaces, but they are really no different than working on any other German marque, if you understand one, you have a greater starting place for an other.
My guess (with some understanding sprinkled in)is that Ferrari's are difficult to work on if you don't have the space, tools or know how to do the work. And maybe some here don't. But if you have a fair amount of mechanical ability, what is an impossible task for some may be a cake walk for others.
I don't have enough experience with F-cars to answer whether or not they are truely sensative brutes or just the misfortune of lack of use.........and that too is why I am here.
But my high miles 993 has been a wonderful car. Can take a flogging on the track and still be a nice daily driver.....and I do all of the wrenching on it (to date).

 

I have owned Ferraris for around 20 years and have driven them on a regular basis. I have had no real problems over that time. I do drive them tho and that is probably why I don't have problems. Several 1000+ mile trips over that time. I do my maintenance myself and do alot of prevenitive looking around. I think they are as reliable as anything else..if you drive them and keep the fluids changed. If there is a drawback it might be that the cam belts have to be changed every 5 years but hell that just keeps you familiar with you car. Regards, Vern

 

Generally, I've found my Ferrari to be pretty reliable considering what it is.

My current favorite anallogy regarding Ferrari maintenance is: Treat a Ferrari like a small airplane - the preventative maintenance is extensive and expensive because you would really hate the results of a failure.

Regards,

Art S.

 

I think the impression that Ferraris are delicate comes from the fact that they are low production number cars. That makes parts expensive so we do lots of preventative maintenance. Problems that large production runs would catch in the first 20-30 thousand cars produced are not caught by the Ferrari factory in a timely fashion. Usually once the factory knows about a problem and finds a solution the production run could be close to the end. Then Ferrari owners I know are very meticulous and will not settle for a Ferrari that is less than 100% perfect. We are always striving for that 100%. It does not matter if we are talking about which battery is best for the car or which wax is best. Many of us love "fixing", washing, polishing and talking about Ferraris. I can see how a non-owner could be frightened by all the talk of maintenance.

 

You might find an independent who's closer - for any of the "older" V8s (308-328-348-355) the results can be perfectly fine and the costs may be more reasonable, as independents seem less motivated to sell you Ferrari parts.

Logic definitely says get a Porsche. However, once you've driven a Ferrari you will understand. I've had both, and the sound and experience of a Ferrari exceed what even a really good Porsche like my 993 could offer.

As far as maintenance, Ferrari didn't design it's engines to be drive-it-and-forget it machinery. Think of it as your own personal race car. They use lightweight cam belts instead of indestructible chains. Their engines are designed to produce power, maintenance be damned. And they have stupidly elegant touches like leather dashtops that are too charming to pass up, even if you know they're going to shrink in the sun.

Don't look for a logical reason to get a Ferrari, or you will get stuck in something less.

 

imho , Ferrari doesn't care , even if they are aware of a problem.

see , 355 valve guides / 355 cabrio top , etc.

 

Thats a great question. If you don't mind Turf, I would also like to add, is there a DIY page as part of this forum? Or another site for DIY's that everyone uses? For Porsche 993's we have a DIY thread of explanations on Rennlist.com as well as another site (which spawned the Renn thread) at P-car.com. Absolutely the best resource for learning and "doing it yourself" in a lamen's terms.

 

I have only been a Ferrari owner for six years but it seems to me that maitenance issues arise from:
- not being driven enough
- not doing scheduled or routine maitenance
- not replacing worn or skeptical parts
- driver abuse
Also remember that this is a rear/mid-engined car and does not receive the airflow to cool the engine and its components like a front engined 'American' car does. They get hot, expand, shrink, and wear out eventually. That's the deal.

Vern is right on with driving and putting the miles on. I am so sick of hearing, "How many miles does it have?", I could throw up!

And as Bullfighter says, once you drive and experience Ferrari, there is no other....truly.

 

I have had numerous Porsche cars, 911, 944, 951. I never worried about them braking down. I drove them hard and kept the oil and filter changed.
I knew if I ever had a problem I had plenty of places to take them for repair.
Plus the parts are easy to find and the price is reasonable.

I do think, if I blew the Ferrari engine, I would go back to owning a Porsche.
I feel Ferrari parts availability is lacking and pricing is high. Thanks to all the Guys that provided generic parts for us.
As soon as it cools off in Florida, I plan on driving my Mondial more.(the A/C is as inefficient as my 911). I do love the look and sound of my Ferrari, over my Porsche cars.


I have a Mondial 8 with 12k miles. And I'm a little afraid to drive it.
The belts were changed 3k miles ago, because of age.

Charles

 

Logic does not enter the Ferrari purchase equation. If you are considering a Vette, you are not ready for Ferrari...they are two totally different cars.

My 308 QV has been pretty damn reliable...never been stranded.

 

Whenever I return from a nice hard drive on the twisties, I can tell my 308 is just grinin' from ear to ear. Don't be afraid to drive it. Take it to a track event sometime and let'r rip!

 

Ferrari's are not M-B's and BMW's.

Ferrari's are different cars that require different understanding.

However, there is no car made that comes even close to the excitement and feel of Ferrari, and I have had almost all the high end car makes.

It's not made to be a daily driver but it can be. It's made to drive when you've spent a week driving everything else!

All cars require maintenance. M-B's, Porsche's, BMW's require less overall maintenance.

But Ferrari, it's a passion. Either you have the passion or you don't.

Only you can decide, Turfman.

 

ckracing,

Remember, Ferrari raced in and won many of the same races Porsche ran. If handle correctly, the are extremely durable and reliable. Drive it more, you will come to trust it.

Regards,

Art S

 

I bleed Ferrari red but knowing how expensive they are to own...

well...I am currently on my third Viper GTS.



Sometimes the dream of ownership doesn't equal the reality.

Still....I will own a few of them someday

 

I've had 2 944, 1 944 turbo(951). They were very reliable, blown head gaskets, leaking water pumps, leaking power steering racks, number 2 main bearing starves for oil on steep turns.
I've had 2 911, 1 1970 911T, never a major problem with that one, except the solex carbs, changed to webers. AND major rust.
My 1983 911SC was galvanized, so no rust problems. Did break head studs, had to pull heads and do a rebuild, chain tensioners were always a problem until 1984. All of the older 911 cars smoke on start up. Up to the 996, the engines were all dry sump.
The good side to owning a Porsche is parts . Parts are as cheap as a Honda or Toyota. And there are a LOT of repair shops.
The 996(911) and 986(Boxsters) with standard transmissions all will have failed rear main seals. Porsche fixed that problem starting with the 997 and 987 cars. A lot of the early 996 & 986 had leaking cylinder liners.
Intake manifolds warp, Oil seperators fail($600.00)
1989-1994 964(911) had cylinder head gasket issues
1995-1997 993(911) had intake ports that filled with carbon, and required a valve job. Caused check engine light to come on.
Porsche club of America since 1985

Corvettes are a dime a dozen, and anyone can repair them. The only way Corvettes win at international racing is to bump the leader.
I sold my 1983 911SC and bought my first Ferrari a Mondial.
I wish I would have purchased a Ferrari sooner. My next Ferrari will be a 348.
Charles

 

I have owned Porsches for over 30 years and still enjoy driving my 997S (X51), but nothing puts a smile on my face like driving my F355! While I agree that the maintenance costs are higher on the Ferrari than the Porsche, I don’t think the maintenance cost alone inhibits people from purchasing Ferraris. It’s either worth it to you or not, and to me it’s worth every cent!

 

This is not entirely accurate. Porsche's are not 100% reliable, just like any other car. However - some of your statements are not factually correct. For example, 1989-1994 964s did not all have cylinder head gasket issues. In 1992 this problem was corrected - and it only affected very few cars anyway. It's also not true to say all 996s will have RMS issues - although it does seem to be the current hot problem of the day.

I joined this forum a few weeks ago, and I must confess that the reputation of Ferrari's does make me nervous about owning one. When I see one, my heart skips a beat. But logic does still play a part - and this board isn't entirely changing my mind.

I agree they are fantastic cars (although I still have a lot to learn about them) and I agree passion plays a big part of owning them. But from some of the threads it seems like this passion justifies the cost of owning the car and the perception of them being fragile.

I have seen many posts from people saying that they have had no problems / car has been very reliable / maintenance has been reasonable / they drive it every day. But I've also seen plenty of posts that seem to suggest that a lot of owners don't trust the reliability of their cars. It seems like a 500+ mile trip is a big thing, and it's a success if it's made with no problems. Porsche's have plenty of problems - I've had plenty myself - but I don't see posts like that on rennlist.

I definitely "want" a ferrari more than a porsche. But - if I had to drive 2000 miles tomorrow, I'd jump in the porsche confident it would get me there and back with no major problems (of course there are no guarantees, but I would be 100% confident when I left). I can't help feeling that if I had a ferrari, I'd actually be wondering if it was a good idea to use it or whether I should be sensible and use my daily ford focus.

Is this concern unjustified? Or does it mean I can't actually afford a ferrari until I would do the trip without worrying about what might go wrong and what the repair costs might be?

 

All very good points (and a good question). I saw a post just this morning, someone was wondering if when they bought their car could they plan on it making a 1600 mile journey with no issues.......? HUH? If I'm going to spend 40/50/60 grand on a car, it damn well better be able to make that trip and many more without any major issues........otherwise I'm sticking with my P-cars!

You're on Rennlist? 964 board? Didn't recongise the avatar name....'course I'm over on the 993 board (which may explain it )