Engagement ring purchase advice - Tiffany's worth the premium?

Read this first, then come back and ask questions.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198202/diamond

 

The ship may have sailed, but there is no need to buy the QEII, if a row boat will do.

 

Markups are typically 100-200% on small jewelery items, less mark up on the more expensive pieces, but still "retail" type pricing structure.

Still want to buy?

Tiffany is a public company, their annual report and SEC filings can give you some insight on their business structure if you want to dig.

 

May I ask why you have set your budget at 7.5k?

I have read that diamonds cost about $5 to mine and $40 to cut and whatnot. I've also heard that diamonds are one of the very few items that get marked up 100-300% at every step (wholesale to retail etc).

If you really want to spend 7.5k buy a stone from somewhere like bluenile.com and have a jewler mount it, then mail me the extra 5k.

Bottom line is, you will get ripped off majorly if you aren't smart about it, especially at Tiffanys. Oh and I'm sure they light their stores in such a way that everything has maximum sparkle. Don't fall for it.

 

Last April, I was doing a lot of personal looking into diamonds as I bought an engagement ring for my fiancée. I proposed in June (successfully) and the wedding is set for this coming April.

Here's a start for what you need to know, but it is by no means fully comprehensive - you'll need to do some further reading and research yourself...

The Four C's: the most important things to look at when you start of your search.

* Cut: can't be too deep (tall) or shallow, or the light won't refract correctly). There are different shapes you can get, with the 'best' one (in my personal view) being Round Brilliant - not to be confused with Old European which is (outdated and) also round but does not shine as bright due to less light refraction. A diamond of a specific cut can be done more or less well, and getting the angles just right is critical for the way it will refract the light and thus shine. Cut gradings go from 'ideal', 'excellent', 'very good', 'good', and below that isn't worth considering. Cut is extremely important - pay very close attention to this.
* Colour: There's a scale according to GIA (certifiers), though basically anything below 'near colourless' isn't really worth considering. I reckon a G or an H as a minimum would give you a reasonable diamond.

• Colourless
  * D (best)
  * E
  * F
• Near Colourless
  * G
  * H
  * I
• Faint Yellow
  * J-M
• Very Light Yellow
  * N-R
• Light Yellow
  * S-Z

* Clarity: diamonds can have inclusions, small black carbon deposits in them. Anything above VS1 is pretty good.

• Flawless: no inclusions - not worth the money unless the diamond is an investment
• VVS1 - VVS2: very, very small incusions (invisible to the naked eye) - the best grade for jewellery, in my opinion.
• VS1 - VS2: very small inclusions (rarely visible to the naked eye, but extremely difficult to spot) - a good 'budget' clarity.
• SI1 - SI2: small inclusions (visible to the naked eye, but difficult to spot)
• I1 - I2: inclusions visible to the naked eye
• I3: large inclusions.

* Carat: the weight of the diamond

• 1 carat = 0.2g or 200mg
• Apparent 'size' can vary amongst diamonds of the same weight, as diamonds cut more shallow can appear wider than ones cut more deeply.
• Generally, I would say that a better quality diamond is preferable to a larger one of lesser quality - as the former will really sparkle and the latter might be mistaken for cubic zirconia.

​

Also to consider, but much more confusing, is fluorescence. Under UV light, some diamonds will fluoresce a blue colour. Less fluorescence is better if you have a higher colour grade (e.g. D) as the diamond will not appear blue. If you have a lower-rated colour for your diamond (e.g. H/I) then a little bit of fluorescence can actually counteract some of the yellow tinge in the diamond and make it appear more colourless in direct sunlight.

And finally... you'll want to ensure the quality of your diamond with accreditation. Conflict diamonds (the sale of which funds military activity and civil war in Africa) are to be avoided and any accreditation provided by reputable jewellers can assure you that yours is not a conflict diamond. The accreditation will also list any enhancements made to your diamond like chemical bleaching, surface polishing, surface correction (filling in cracks with glass or another clear substance), etc... not that there's anything wrong with 'enhancements' but it does impact the price of the diamond and you shouldn't pay a premium for such a stone. You also can be reassured that the diamond is certainly as good as the jeweller is telling you. DO NOT TRUST AN IN-HOUSE ACCREDITATION as an unscrupulous jeweller can write anything on a bit of paper to say its a fabulous diamond and then sell you a poorly cut one at an extortionate price if you don't have the eye to spot any better! The two I know and trust are GIA (http://www.gia.edu/) and IGI (http://www.igiworldwide.com/).

As for settings.... a setting in white gold or platinum rather than yellow gold can really improve the apparent colour of a diamond in situ. However, white gold is naturally more a grey colour, so needs to be coated with another metal that wears off and needs to be refurbished every 18 months of daily wear. The advantage of platinum, though more expensive, is that it's natural colour is white and any wear does not impact the shine of the setting. Platinum is also a heavier and stronger metal, but be careful what the remaining alloys are in the 95% pure platinum as some combinations can result in extreme abrasion resistance at the expense of brittleness on impact with a hard object.

As for where to go: look to your independent jewellers, they'll give you the most bang for your buck, greatest flexibility, and I found the prices at Tiffany's to be overinflated. Some high-street style jewellers are ok for getting a few ideas for ring shapes if you want to modify it and go for a bespoke design to a fabrication house, but typically they sell poor quality diamonds. You can buy diamonds off the internet, but I'd advise you not to do this for the simple reason that a diamond can look great on paper but lack lustre and fire when you gaze into it (and don't be afraid to ask for magnification) - for whatever reason. Also, if you buy the diamond and the ring separately make sure the house doing the mounting for you is fully insured - diamonds can crack when being mounted and you want it covered.

And that's about it, I think. If there are any jewellers on here, I'm sure they'll be along to correct me where I'm mistaken. For what it's worth, the specification I went with for my fiancée's engagement ring was:

0.46ct, D colour, VVS2 clarity, round brilliant style, Ideal Cut, Excellent Table (diamond height-to-width ratio), Excellent symmetry, zero florescence, girdle thickness thin-to-medium (the thinner the better), and overall dimensions were 4.99-5.01 x 3.07 mm. IGI certified. This was mounted in a bespoke platinum ring with rub-over settings.

The ring took me many months to find, and I personally examined many, many diamonds - sometimes the specification looked ok on paper, but the diamond just didn't have the fire I needed. Seriously, spend some time gazing into the diamonds when choosing, you want to see it sparkle! Once I'd narrowed it down to a couple of diamonds in a couple of shops, I played them off each other for prices. I wasn't looking for the lowest price, I was looking for the best bang-for-buck and each diamond I treated individually. Fortunately, the one I got was also the one I rated most highly as a diamond and got a good price (if you want to know what I paid and can be discreet, I'll tell you by PM - I don't particularly want to publish a figure in the open forum).​

The other piece of information you might want to know is that my fiancée spent no time at all thinking about the exact size, the exact colour, the exact clarity, the exact cut, or anything remotely to do with price. She stares at it on her finger and exclaims either: "Beeeaaauuutiful." or "Look at the shiny!" As long as it glitters and is from you, you'll have made the right decision - but believe me, the effort you put into choosing and negotiating a really good diamond (that you can afford) will be very much worth it in the end.

Good luck!

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I bought my wife's ring at Tiffany's 30 years ago and she still thinks it is much better than what she could have had at another store. To her, the Tiffany name was important. When she has had it looked at by another jewler recently, they knew it came from Tiffany's without being told.

 

Fair enough. To give you an idea though, Tiffany's quoted me twice the price for a diamond that was nowhere near the quality of the one I eventually bought. As long as the diamonds you're viewing are certified by independent international organisations, then you can be confident the diamond is a good one.

I made sure I knew more than most of the 'salespersons' at the counters and often had to deal with the qualified jewellers directly to get answers to my technical questions. The place I ended up going, I'm also using for the wedding bands and all the staff now call the jeweller/head designer as soon as I walk in rather than try to serve me themselves... I'm not sure if that should be taken as a complement or whether they all think of me as a pain.

Independent jewellers offer a very personal service and are willing to put a lot of time and effort into your specific order, but I agree you will have to look to find a good one, talk to them to check them out, and that takes a fair bit of time. Tiffany's is probably one of the best of the chains, but they're still a chain and their services are not as personal if you're after something unique, bespoke, or if you want a ring of lower profile (Tiffany's trademark settings are very tall and catch on clothing).

As for Costco, I doubt you'll get a quality diamond through them. It's worth having a look to get some ideas for ring designs, but I'd imagine they're geared towards lower ends of the spectrum for colour, clarity, and cut - even if you can get a larger diamond through them. Make sure anything they're selling is certified as it would be at Tiffany's or a good independent jeweller... but given your budget, I really think you're better off with a dedicated jeweller.

No worries. Admittedly, I had more time to invest than I did funds so I had to make up the difference with months of effort. I tell you, I'm glad I won't have to do any sneaking around any more - as it was extremely stressful trying to keep the girlfriend in the dark while I was sneaking off to visit jewellers on evenings/weekends/etc without her finding out (I wanted the proposal to be a surprise).

Actually, it's the first time I've ever managed to keep a complete secret from her. All the other times I've tried to get her a surprise present, she'd always had some inkling that it was coming and had an uncanny ability to know what it was going to be. Not sure how she manages it, really.

Anyway, I can't think what more I can do to be helpful - but if you think of anything, just let me know. It'd certainly be a smoother process for me the second time through if I had to do it again.

That's excellent advice. You should also get it periodically valued to make sure it's insured for the full amount. I bought mine at the low point for diamond prices and if I got back what I paid for it I wouldn't get a similar quality diamond today; it's insured for current market value instead so that I can get a like-for-like replacement in the event anything should happen to it.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Did your gf specifically ask for something this expensive? If not, maybe she'd be happier saving the money. And if you need to spend a certain amount to please her, I'd be worried. Just sayin..

I don't have a Ferrari yet, so no contrasting stitching. But the difference there is - you either pay for it, or you don't. With a diamond ring, there are a zillion different retailers, wholesalers, price points, sizes/qualities, etc etc. Not the same comparison at all.

I am sure you are a busy guy, but if you are putting in the time to propose and get married, I'd think spending at least a few hours doing the research would be worth it.

I know many people who have bought the stone and then had it mounted separately, and they've saved a ton of money. If you don't think saving 5k is worth your time, then buy from Tiffany's. PS you can buy a Tiffany's box on eBay for 10 bucks if it makes you happier.

At the end of the day, it's your (and your future wife's) money...

 

I understand more now.. but still have a few suggestions..

If she wouldn't you to buy a ring from Tiffany's then why spend almost 8k on something she doesn't want? Sounds like she'd be happier with you saving the money. On top of that, an engagement ring is supposed to be meaningful, and represent the sacrifice you are making for her. It shouldn't be special because it's from Tiffany's - it should be special because you spent the time and effort to get her something you think she'll enjoy.

If the time issue is mostly related to being able to get free alone time to shop or do research - the solution to that is to use the internet. You can do all of the research on diamonds online, and be more prepared when you have a chance to sneak out for the purchase.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/deal-discussion/608684/

That should keep you busy for a while

 

One of the nice things about tiff's is it is like having a trusted source work on your ferrari and you don't have to second guess their honesty, commitment, or ability. When your home owner's insurance sees tiffany's as the source and a GIA (I forget the name of it) certification that goes with it, you get alot less scutiny as to true value and authenticity of the stone. Their designs are conservative,timeless, often copied, and the value will hold vs. funny things ringmakers do today like have laser etched numbers in stones which devalue them but any idiot with a scope can read vs. having a GIA cert which is a finger print of your stone that is confirmed by a gem expert. Fine jewelers like tiff and cartier really are a cut above like ferrari is to vette both fast cars but if you are in the "know" which would you rather have?

 

More reading.. this looks like the FChat of diamond shopping..

http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/

 

If you can spare an hour at your computer, then go to goodoldgold.com and learn about diamonds.

I say cut is the most important of the C's... because a big ass diamond won't sparkle if it's not cut well. A great cut is way more important than inclusions (especially VVS/VS). After cut, color... and clarity and carats are last.

You can spend an hour and learn about the various metrics (like "hearts and arrows" diamonds) and at least be educated enough so when you go to a shop and ask (or you call), you will have the requisite knowledge to get something good.

As for Tiffany's, I think it would be a mistake to assume the name implies a certain level of quality over other jewelry stores. Just my experience having bought some stuff before.