360 MAF Cleaning

delta2210 · #1 11-04-2009, 09:40 PM

So, I've had a persistent rough idle problem with my 360. It was running rich, had bad fuel economy, and would hang around 300 rpm for the first 5 or 6 seconds after a cold start. The CEL came on once and it threw 1123 and 1125, which indicates a rich fuel mixture on both banks.

I had the throttle bodies cleaned at the local Fshop for $150. Did not really solve the problem. So, I cleaned the MAFs. I was about to take it to the shop to do it, but did some reading and it is not that hard. You have to get a special torx bit (t20 tamper proof/security.) I got mine at Lowe's for 10 bucks. Then I picked up the CRC MAF cleaner for 6 bucks at autozone. Pictures are attached of the connector and the MAFs. The one on the left is cleaned and the right is still dirty.

They are pretty easy to take out. Biggest challenge is the clip on the underside of the connector. You have to press pretty hard to get it to release. Don't use a screwdriver or anything, just your fingers and it will release. After that, it is a cinch. Just take out the screws, then spray the hell out of it with the MAF cleaner. Be sure to use eye protection and do it far away from the car. The cleaner goes everywhere.

After cleaning, my fuel economy got much better, but the rough idle on cold starts persisted. I ran a bottle of techron fuel injector cleaner in a tank of gas through the car. Then, I finally put in new air filters and that finally solved the problem. The car starts up great and runs like a top.

**jjsaustin** · #2 11-04-2009, 10:19 PM

Jason,

Nice write up and pics. Do you have a full size picture of the MAF before and after?

I think the rough idle on initial start up can be caused by several things. Some people said it could be the plugs, O2 sensors, MAFs, etc.. Mine started about two months or so ago. I just had a 15K service (new plugs, filters, MAFs cleaned, etc.), but I still had the rough idle for 5 seconds or so. My mechanic put some Techron Injector cleaner in and I ran a tank and half of gas trough it and suddenly the rough idle went away.

Since then I have been starting the car once a day for a week and the problem has not come back. I start the car and immediately it idles around 1000 RPM. I think mine was caused by the injectors and the Techron cleaner fixed it. In the past I could have the rough idle for 5 seconds twice in a day if I let it cool down all the way (once in the morning and once again at night).

Anyways, I am going to let it sit for two days and start it up and see it the idle stays smooth.

-Jim

blkdiablo33 · #3 11-05-2009, 12:24 AM

great write up.

scarlet38 · #4 11-05-2009, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta2210

So, I've had a persistent rough idle problem with my 360. It was running rich, had bad fuel economy, and would hang around 300 rpm for the first 5 or 6 seconds after a cold start.

I have the persistent idle problem as well and also running rich. My workshop suggested that there could be few potential contributing issues ie. fuel pump hence fuel pressure too low at start? I cleaned my MAF during last service and the idle problem did not go away..

delta2210 · #5 11-05-2009, 08:13 AM

I would put in new air filters and run a bottle of techron through it. Get the 20 gallon one if your tank is full, as the 360 has a big fuel tank (25 gallons.)

I am not sure what maneuver cleared up my problem, as I did a number of things at once. Cleaning the MAFs did help the fuel economy.

I think my biggest problem was that they guy who had the car before me hardly ever drove it. He put about 1200 miles on it in 3 years. I have a feeling the injectors were gummed up. The techron probably helped that. In addition, the air filters were 10 years old and did not look so hot.

Closer photos are below. Top photo is the cleaned one. There is also another piece of the element in a somewhat enclosed area on the side of the MAF that was cleaned also. It did not show up well at all in the photos, but it was pretty dirty as well. These elements are made of platinum, so small changes make a big difference. There are also some good youtube videos on how to do this. One guy uses a brush on his, I don't think that is such a good idea. I just sprayed them down.

FerrariDublin · #6 11-05-2009, 06:59 PM

As others have said, great contribution and thanks.

I have none of these problems but I'll be straight down the auto factors at the weekend to get the same bits and bobs and do mine too! Sure why wouldn't you?

Cheers and thanks again!

**stradaledriver** · #7 11-05-2009, 08:35 PM

Not trying to step on anyones toes just giving some insight.

The element on the pictures you show I do believe is the IAT (Intake Air Temp.) sensor portion of the Mass Air Flow sensor and the other element you say was dirty and also cleaned was the actual wires of the MAF (they are in the airflow where they need to be). Cleaning them both will have an effect of fuel mileage.

Rough idle/rich running was probably leaky injector(s) and the Techron probably cleaned them and allowed them to seal up again so no excess fuel leaked or pooled up near the intake valve. The engine would run rough and rich at idle due to this problem.

Air filter probably was not an issue...if an air filter was clogged enough to cause an idle problem then the car probably would not go anywhere as it would really need some air to accelerate.

Kudos for not being afraid to work on you own car.

delta2210 · #8 11-06-2009, 01:10 AM

I thought there were two different elements on that piece..... They did look like separate purposes. Too bad the MAF element did not show up better. It was as dirty or worse than the element (IAT) in the photos.

For me, I have always like working on cars. It was not so much the money, as it was the time to take the car to the shop, get somebody to follow me and get me back to the house, etc. Then, wait to see what the shop had to say. Then get somebody else to haul me back down there to pick it up. It's a lot of time to do all that. Patience has never been one of my better virtues.

Attached is a photo of the MAF element. I played with it a bit on photoshop to get it to show up better.

**jjsaustin** · #9 11-06-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjsaustin

Jason,

Nice write up and pics. Do you have a full size picture of the MAF before and after?

I think the rough idle on initial start up can be caused by several things. Some people said it could be the plugs, O2 sensors, MAFs, etc.. Mine started about two months or so ago. I just had a 15K service (new plugs, filters, MAFs cleaned, etc.), but I still had the rough idle for 5 seconds or so. My mechanic put some Techron Injector cleaner in and I ran a tank and half of gas trough it and suddenly the rough idle went away.

Since then I have been starting the car once a day for a week and the problem has not come back. I start the car and immediately it idles around 1000 RPM. I think mine was caused by the injectors and the Techron cleaner fixed it. In the past I could have the rough idle for 5 seconds twice in a day if I let it cool down all the way (once in the morning and once again at night).

Anyways, I am going to let it sit for two days and start it up and see it the idle stays smooth.

-Jim

After two days sitting, my car still started up with a smooth idle. I'm calling my problem solved. The Techron injector cleaner is was did it for me. But like I said, I think the rough idle on cold start can be caused by a variety of things.

-Jim

bigme · #10 11-06-2009, 12:28 PM

I bought the same exact T20 bosch bits and it didn't fit. on my 360 MAS The round hex center is bigger then the normal T20 . Anyone know who supplies the T20 hex bit that works on that?

**Schumi76** · #11 11-07-2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta2210

So, I've had a persistent rough idle problem with my 360. It was running rich, had bad fuel economy, and would hang around 300 rpm for the first 5 or 6 seconds after a cold start. The CEL came on once and it threw 1123 and 1125, which indicates a rich fuel mixture on both banks.

I had the throttle bodies cleaned at the local Fshop for $150. Did not really solve the problem. So, I cleaned the MAFs. I was about to take it to the shop to do it, but did some reading and it is not that hard. You have to get a special torx bit (t20 tamper proof/security.) I got mine at Lowe's for 10 bucks. Then I picked up the CRC MAF cleaner for 6 bucks at autozone. Pictures are attached of the connector and the MAFs. The one on the left is cleaned and the right is still dirty.

They are pretty easy to take out. Biggest challenge is the clip on the underside of the connector. You have to press pretty hard to get it to release. Don't use a screwdriver or anything, just your fingers and it will release. After that, it is a cinch. Just take out the screws, then spray the hell out of it with the MAF cleaner. Be sure to use eye protection and do it far away from the car. The cleaner goes everywhere.

After cleaning, my fuel economy got much better, but the rough idle on cold starts persisted. I ran a bottle of techron fuel injector cleaner in a tank of gas through the car. Then, I finally put in new air filters and that finally solved the problem. The car starts up great and runs like a top.

Do you know how Ferrari cleaned your throttle bodies ???
I found some Valvoline Heavy Duty Carb and Trottle Body cleaner is my garage.
Would that be safe to use to get my MAF cleaned as you described ???
Thanks !!

andrew911 · #12 11-10-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta2210

I would put in new air filters and run a bottle of techron through it. Get the 20 gallon one if your tank is full, as the 360 has a big fuel tank (25 gallons.)

I

I just got my 360 and figured I'd run the techron (black "super concentrated" bottles) through...but because of the 25+ gallon tank in the 360 I used the bigger bottle that treats "up to 20 gallons" and the smaller bottle that treats "up to 12 gallons"- figuring in total I had enought to treat "up to 32 gallons", so 25 gallons should by fuzzy math be enough to treat 25 gallons well. I also put in sta-bil brand gas stabilizer....I just got the car and will continue driving it every chance I have on the weekends, but it's difficult to say how much longer until the first salting of the NJ roads...if I get a lot of driving in (i.e. use a good portion of the fuel tank) and then there is a forecast for ice/snow, I'll just top the car off w/gas and put in an appropiate amount of stabilizer/techron to keep it good before the storm hits.

I'm a bit anal, so typically I'd put enough stuff in to serve the whole tank at the gas station first and then fill the car to help it mix, but because of the way I did it this year (i.e. not sure how much I'd drive the car before the end of the season but wanted to run the techron as it's a new car to me and not sure of what prior owner did), I'll top off with gas and the appropiate amount of techron and stabilizer once more. Typcially I would put the techron in during the main driving season with a fill up, then drive the tank to about 1/8 tank or so to maximize the time the proper concentration of fuel/techron is running through the system. I use the techron probably about 1x/year, maybe even 1x/2 years (I drove my 911 and will drive my 360 about 1,500-2,000 miles a year).

Regarding the stabil fuel stabilizer, not to compare my 360 to a lawnmower, but once I was trying to get a lawn mower going that had been sitting for several years with old gas in it (that did not have stabilizer)...I removed the old gas and put in new gas that happened to have stabilizer mixed as the gas I was using was bought for the snowblower months before. The mower was barely running since the old gas was still in the carb and probably gummed up things....but I started mowing the lawn on what seemed like half power. After about 2-3 minutes suddenly the mower came to life. When I looked at the bottle of stabil in the garage I then noticed it said "fuel stabilizer" and then in small print "and performance improver". I think the stabil is what helped clean the carb!

Only on ferrari chat will there be some nut like me using empirical evidence gathered using a 20 year old lawnmower to justify a product application to a ferrari! But I've been using the stuff on everything from my mower to porsche for the past 20 years...and it's cheap to boot!

-Andrew