What is it like to race a high horsepower car?

[TurboFreak650]

Originally Posted by Mitch Alsup

{Rhetorical}
Question: What is the easiest way to slow a competing driver down?
Answer: Add 100 HP to his engine.
{/Rhetorical}

I completely agree with the deleted paragraph, also. I instructed a guy at MSR Boney (Houston) with a similar car. In order to geet him up to speed, I had to teach him to drive away from the throttle. That is, when he felt the turbos kick in, feather the throttle back so that the car accelerated rather linearly through the turns*. We added about 25 MPH to his braking point into T4 simply by doing this, and getting used ot track driving.

(*) Rather than violently as 600+HP is want to do....

Yep, I edited my post to be more pithy, but I've observed it again and again---going for max possible veolcity on the back straight = slower lap time. You'll end up beating up your car much worse as well. A friend with a setup very similar to mine can hit 165+ mph at Road Atlanta, but his laps are better when he stops accelerating at 150+ mph and brakes at the last possible second.

I know all about that feathering as does any turbo guy. I can only imagine how terrifying it must be to drive something like a Turbo F1 or Porsche 935 at qualifying boost!!

[Pantera]

Originally Posted by John B

Sure,
The R&S was originally campaigned by AutoExe and raced By Terada. They made a few changes, mostly low drag bodywork and called it an AutoExe instead of a R&S. It still has an AutoExe plaque. It's powered by a 6.0 Liter Ford. The car raced at LeMans in 1999 and dnf'ed due to camshaft failure. It was crashed heavily later that year at Fuji. The Tub was replaced with a brand new tub, was #19, now #21. It was raced little since. As a European LeMans car it has some unique features that differ from the cars that raced in the US under Grand Am rules. Particularly 6 speed sequential and carbon brakes. Jim downing bought it from Terada & Autoexe sold it briefly to Howard Katz and then I purchased it from Howard 2008. I ran it at Road America, Miller, Daytona & Sebring that year then began a full rebuild after Sebring which is just finishing up. Hope to have it ready by Daytona this year, it hit 204 mph there last year. It's a wonderful car to drive. The low drag bodywork, 6-speed sequential and carbon brakes are nice features that help make it a very competitive car in HSR. The car was white when I purchased it but was originally red when raced at LeMans. It will be red again when it makes it's next appearance, don't know about the zoo animals though... The white is horrible with the dust from the carbon brakes and I'm partial to red. Pics from Sebring '08, Daytona '08, LeMans '99. Champ Car at Atlanta '08.

Is that the porsche 962 in that pic?.

[John B]

Originally Posted by TurboFreak650

Increasing HP beyond a comfortable, usable point will actually make you slower,

And then there is Mark Donohue's perspective...
Speaking to Porsche engineers about the Power of the Turbocharged 917/30. "When I can leave two black strips all the way down the straight from the turn exit to the next braking zone, THEN I will have enough horsepower!

But I agree. Having it, and using it are two different things.

Richard Petty once said something to the effect of, "Yeah it's making 600 HP, but only when my foot is all the way to the floor!"



Pantera - Indeed that is a Porsche 962 in the Pic at Daytona, it belongs to a good friend of mine. Beautiful car indeed!

[Fred2]

For those that have driven the winged Indy type cars, I am interested in knowing how they behave at the limit of cornering adhesion.

My assumption is that once they start to slip, they let go all at once.
Is this correct, or can you dance on the edge of grip.

[John B]

Originally Posted by Fred2

For those that have driven the winged Indy type cars, I am interested in knowing how they behave at the limit of cornering adhesion.

My assumption is that once they start to slip, they let go all at once.
Is this correct, or can you dance on the edge of grip.

I think for cars with Tunnels, (Champ Cars, Formula Atlantics, GTP cars) this is true in high speed corners where the aerodynamic downforce is the predominant factor. Once the car starts to yaw excessively, the tunnels are no longer going straight and quickly lose their effectiveness. It obviously was over its limit to initiate the excessive yaw in the first place, and will go downhill very quickly from there. There would be no catching it. You get a very small window between when the tires begin to lose grip and the car's trajectory begins to change in which to make corrections. A great example of this is the Carousel at Road America in a Formula Atlantic. It's 180 degrees, flat out in 4th gear, very close to the limit. You "feel" the car, continuously making minute adjustments as required to stay ahead of the car the whole way through the turn. On the other hand In lower speed turns where mechanical grip is the predominant factor (turn 5 Road America, FA, 1st gear), you can toss them around a bit more, and can "catch it" if it gets too far.

[TurboFreak650]

Originally Posted by John B

And then there is Mark Donohue's perspective...
Speaking to Porsche engineers about the Power of the Turbocharged 917/30. "When I can leave two black strips all the way down the straight from the turn exit to the next braking zone, THEN I will have enough horsepower!

But I agree. Having it, and using it are two different things.

Richard Petty once said something to the effect of, "Yeah it's making 600 HP, but only when my foot is all the way to the floor!"



Pantera - Indeed that is a Porsche 962 in the Pic at Daytona, it belongs to a good friend of mine. Beautiful car indeed!

Donohue was cut from a different cloth than most of us!! But there was never attempt to run even the mighty 917/30 at full power (1560 HP) in competition as 1200 was quite enough!

The mind boggles at the thought of modern turbo race cars being allowed to run with no limits.......

[Ingenere]

Originally Posted by Fred2

For those that have driven the winged Indy type cars, I am interested in knowing how they behave at the limit of cornering adhesion.

My assumption is that once they start to slip, they let go all at once.
Is this correct, or can you dance on the edge of grip.

My March's characteristics were definitely a knife edge, and anything that disrupted the air flow under the car presented a challenge.

Generally speaking, the faster you go the better it sticks is true..... up to a point! I was told by a few Indycar drivers that it was possible to catch at that point, but my hands were usually not quick enough to rein things in. When I did manage it, it was very rewarding. I have to emphasize that the speeds we are talking about to get this to happen are hugely high. Remember, these cars are easily able to pull 3-4g in the corners.

If you go from a high downforce car to a street car, everything seems in slow motion. The transitions are so progressive. The speeds are so much slower that when you start to lose a tricky street car (like a 348), it is relatively easy to catch because of the experience of the March. It almost becomes fun!

[Dr Who]

All -- I want to thank you for your responses. Because I'm too old, fat, and slow, the closest I'll ever come to driving one of these cars is reading your posts. Again, thanks.

Dale

[xsrdx]

Originally Posted by speedy_sam

Great thread!!

+1. Further evidence of the extraordinary breadth of experience on this forum.

I was expecting some interesting posts, but did not expect to see GT1, LMP, Champ Car and freaking CAN AM experience.

[BLT2DRIVE]

Common problem of chasing someone off a high speed corner, trying to get a good run on them. As you follow in their wake you often find yourself dialing in more steering input as the leader may have changed lines slightly where as you were trying to keep more air on your car. As the car in front moves again it can re-introduce the air to the front of the car causing the front to "pinch" down putting that excessive steering input to use in a "snap" steering move to the inside, perhaps causing one of the spins to the inside of the exit of a very fast turn. Anticipation is best, but often the air might change because of issues a car or two ahead.

[Dr Who]

Originally Posted by BLT2DRIVE

Common problem of chasing someone off a high speed corner, trying to get a good run on them. As you follow in their wake you often find yourself dialing in more steering input as the leader may have changed lines slightly where as you were trying to keep more air on your car. As the car in front moves again it can re-introduce the air to the front of the car causing the front to "pinch" down putting that excessive steering input to use in a "snap" steering move to the inside, perhaps causing one of the spins to the inside of the exit of a very fast turn. Anticipation is best, but often the air might change because of issues a car or two ahead.

You know, the more I read these posts, the more I realize what great skill sets you go-fast guys have. Keep em coming.

Dale

PS John I watch the vid of you in the can-am car again. The part where you are getting on it going down a long straight, Wow. Your world must have seemed like a different place at that point.

[101010]

Originally Posted by Dr Who

You know, the more I read these posts, the more I realize what great skill sets you go-fast guys have. Keep em coming.

Dale

PS John I watch the vid of you in the can-am car again. The part where you are getting on it going down a long straight, Wow. Your world must have seemed like a different place at that point.

+1, this is fascinating stuff!! pls keep sharing!