2001 456M valve guides and other potential issues

Its really impossible to know about valve guide's without doing leakdown and compression test. Mileage is irrelevant, actually at 27k miles chances are valve guides are fine if they lasted this long with no problems. I paid the $1k(yes I know its high, it was done a a F dealership) for full leakdown and compression PPI procedure that many people skip. Most M's will not have any valve guide issues. But get the full PPI its well spent piece of mind money. Yes, "officially" window seal was taken care of in the later M cars. Saying that Every and I mean every(20+ cars) car I saw leading up to My 01 M purchase had some sort of window seal issue..Its like death and taxes, 456's will have window seal issues...some alot worse than others..a small break in the seal is not a big deal IMO..any gap less than 1/2 an inch personally I dont think is worth the money to fix. I have talked to my local F dealer about this issue and they say that changing widow regulators is no guarentee of a lasting fix...Thats my 2 cents anyway.

 

Hi,
In my modest opinion, while the Diablo456 incident is definitely a case for concern, I do not believe it is just a matter of F using the wrong material and that all the bronze valve guides are going to fail, no matter what.
In fact, phosphor bronze is the alloy of choice of many MFRs and it is used also in other applications, like flat bearings, where it is important to have an alloy that will not seize.
Therefore I suspect there were other factors that may have precipitated the valve guide failure in the Diablo456 case.
I also own a 456, although my mileage is still low and I have virtually no oil consumption.
I keep this issue in the back of my mind, but I am not losing any sleep over it.
I use syntetic oil, I use the car regularly and although I do not race it or abuse it, my right foot is anything but light.
Other issues for the 456 are the windows, but it is possible to have them fixed and the F-fix is not necessarily the best avenue, at least in my experience.
There are shops around that have developed a knowledge and a technique that is better and less costly that the F-fix.
Under the hood there are some cooling hoses that needed to be replaced with a new type, as the old may burst.
The timing belts need to be replaced at regular intervals (time wise and / or mileage wise).
All in all it is a complex car, with many systems that need to be understood and cared for, but I would not call it a headache or a problem car at all.
Common sense and constant alertness are your best allies.
Good luck,
Saluti,

 

I'm going to disagree with you guys on the window thing, at least in my case. My car had the factory window fix done several years back by Ferrari of Seattle, no problems since. And I live in a very rainy climate!

Maybe whoever was doing the factory fix in Florida didn't know how to install it properly?

 

I appreciate that alot of the folks here are following my valve guide problems with some concern, and that it raises questions like the one seen here. Let me give my opinion, as I, too, have owned quite a few of these cars and (obviously) no one wants to buy a model only to find $10k+ in repairs are needed soon thereafter.

The most relevant experience in this case is the 355 crowd. Leaking valve guides in that model are very-well-known, and eventually impacted the majority of early cars. What's significant about this is that it *did* impact so many cars. In contrast, my case *hasn't* affected that many cars yet. Granted, there's fewer 456's running around, but the fact that mine is (apparently) the first car here on Fchat to have this problem is a very important piece of data. If this problem was more widespread or had the chance of eventually impacting all the early 456s, simple statistics will tell you someone else would have seen it before me (2000 model, shows up 6 years later at 24k miles; that describes a lot of early 456s...)

Stated differently, as long as my car is the outliar, I wouldn't panic too much. There are reports of other leaking 456s, including references in the buyer's guide and the latest issue of Forza, but very-little first hand reports here.

Prudence dictates you keep an eye on this issue, and if you're really concernned, get a complete PPI with leakdown and an oil analysis. Until we see more of these, I would still lean toward the assessment that my case is more of an outliar...

 

Don,
I did not mean to generalize and I am sure there are dealers out there who are very capable and willing to come up with long lasting solutions for a variety of problems, not just windows.
In my case, out of 2 dealers I dealt with, I found neither the knowledge or the interest (from the selling one in California to carry out a permanent fix) nor the willingness (by the local one in Florida to even attempt a repair) unfortunately.
However, to the credit of the Florida dealer, they did point me in the direction of an independent, who turned out to be a rare find and was able to get at the root of the problem for a very reasonable amount of money.
Which in a way brings out another issue: depending on where you live, you may have a dealer who is reliable and very effective or you may be forced to go out and seek an independent, because your dealer is only interested in selling cars, not in servicing them.
In other words, the quality of the dealers varies by a lot and FNA is not doing a proper job in enforcing training and service quality, IMO.
Saluti,

 

OSS117 Has it spot on. Know what the problem is, then find the shop that knows how to fix it, then don't assume that a Ferrari authorization line in the shop name means every one of the mechanics know (or has ever done) a particular repair. These cars are produced in such small numbers that some shops see few of the 12 cylinder models in a given year. Window repairs and such add to the difficulty by being as much art as science. Those skills don't come from a book. On the Vintage forum we can all tell you who by name and job does the best work on either coasts because we share our successes (for liability sake not our failures). Just a thought, Michael Bayer 330GT & 365GTC/4, still looking for a 456

 

In the case of the factory window fix, all dealers were not able to do it. For instance, my local dealer wasn't authorized, which is why it had to be shipped up to Ferrari of Seattle. So the factory was making an effort to make sure that the people installing it knew what they were doing.

If you're looking at doing it now, I don't think the factory fix is still available, so an independent fix is your only option.

I have noticed, for whatever reason, that most of the people who complain about the factory fix are located in Florida, which does make me wonder about whoever was doing the installation down there.

 

I was wondering if the Forza guys added the valve issues to the 456 list of problems after reading your post... it is the right timing

 

other 456 & 456 M valve guide discussions: 456 GT & M : http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184637&highlight=valve+guides