Window Rocker switch | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Window Rocker switch

Discussion in '206/246' started by TonyL, Jan 11, 2008.

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  1. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
    Honorary Owner

    May 5, 2005
    1,153
    Santa Barbara, CA
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    John Corbani
    #26 John Corbani, Oct 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I don't have any problems with my windows but was curious as to how they were wired. Seems like a momentary DPDT switch would do it. But then I thought about motor overrun when you remove power from a motor. It keeps on coasting and would make window positioning difficult. You can stop the motor by shorting it. A permanent magnet (PM) DC motor acts as a generator when rotating. Run it into a short circuit and it stops NOW. Maybe need a special DPDT switch.

    I pulled my driver's switch and took a look. Four terminals. Checked voltage on pins. Two center pins were power and ground. Two end pins were selectively switched from ground to power. They returned to ground. +12 power was red, ground was black, two end pins were white.

    I took pictures of the switch but have no interest in taking one apart to see how it is really built. Looks loke the arrows were hot stamped into the button. Probably had white in the bottom. I figured what had to be inside and did an artistic schematic to show how it might be built. It does do everything.
    Hope this helps someone.
    John
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  2. CharlieL

    CharlieL Rookie

    Sep 23, 2004
    41
    John, this insight about the switch shorting to ground is very helpful. It gives me confidence in what I should find when pinning out the 5-pin replacement switch my buddy bought. Needless to say, I want to be absolutely sure before I connect the replacement switch to the Dino wiring.

    --Charlie
     
  3. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    John - great explanation. I do not believe, however, that the motors are electrically manipulated (by grounding both contacts) to prevent inertial run-on. I believe that the mechanical design of the switch is merely to allow for easy reversal of polarity of the motor, necessary for clockwise and counterclockwise rotation.

    I come to this conclusion after rewiring my car. When I built the new harness I tested each circuit. In testing the windows I simply touched each motor contact to ground and positive, and the motor would turn. I could reverse these and the motor would turn in the opposite direction. Nothing profound here. However, the windows behaved just as they do when the switch is pressed. I suspect that the mechanical friction in the window runners (U-tracks), the cabling, and the motor itself are sufficient to prevent run-on.

    Jim S.
     
  4. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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    #29 synchro, Oct 9, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2008
    Blackhorse motors said to use Testors Silver paint intended for hobbyists who assemble plastic models (e.g. cars, boats or planes in 1/24th, 1/32nd, 1/48th scale, etc). Mask off the arrows and paint in the arrow lines.

    Sounds like another candidate for a good Saga restoration topic
     
  5. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
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    May 5, 2005
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    Jim,
    You are probably right about the friction when going up but things are very free in the last inch down. I am an old electronic engineer and have had to short small motors many times. Under any circumstances, that is the way my stock switch works. Just figured I would give a plausable explanation for the unusual switching function. And an idea of what to expect when trying to figure things out with an ohmmeter.
    John
     
  6. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

    Aug 25, 2008
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    Fred
    As an interesting aside to this discussion, a number of years ago Bob Zambelli did some electrical magic on both of my Dinos which allows me to raise or lower the windows without turning the ignition key. I have two sticky switches on one of my Dinos, and I have to coax them gently to get the windows moving at times. Part of the charm of owning an older car, I guess! Fred
     
  7. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
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    May 5, 2005
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    Fred,
    The switches pop right out when you push on the end with a small blade screwdriver. Slide driver blade under the center end of the bezel, push and lift. Spray a little WD-40 on the contacts and pull the wires. Keep track of position. Spray WD-40 liberally into the switch through the various openings. Work switch a lot. Blow out and all should be as new. Put wires back and test. If OK push switch back into console. I believe window power has a single wire going to fuses. Easy to move wire so always hot. Good idea as long as kids will never get into car.
    John
     
  8. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    John - Yes, shorting the motor will require infinite current should it turn into a generator when overrunning. This requires more mechanical force to turn it. An old trick. My observation is simply based on the experience of testing the windows without the switch. No overrun.

    By the way, I try not to use WD-40 when dealing with electrical contacts. WD-40, being petroleum based, is subject to fire should the temperature of the electrical contacts rise, or should there be a spark, both of which are possible when lubricating electrical contacts.

    Silicone spray, I believe, is a better choice.

    Keep up the information flow. Lots of fun. Especially for us EEs.

    Jim S.
     
  9. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
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  10. John Corbani

    John Corbani Formula 3
    Honorary Owner

    May 5, 2005
    1,153
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Full Name:
    John Corbani
    I have used WD-40 for many things for the past 30-60 years. When was it invented? No problem with engineering plastics (nylon, delrin, etc. No conductive or sticky residue. Thin carrier liquid evporates in minutes after washing away corrosion products. Use enough. No explosions. Easy to find and great for most anything that needs cleaning and light lube. More residual lube for sliding metal surfaces? 3 and 1 oil is fine. But not on electrical/electronic parts. I have found that special "contact cleaners" are not required for auto electrical projects. A CD player or laptop repair is another story. The Dino was built tough.
    John
     

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