Timing Belt Failure After Only 150mi!! WTF!?!?

I might speak for others here that your are referring to as "cheap" . .. as an engineer I have wanted to understand why certain parts and services are so ridiculously expensive when a Ferrari . .. both the engine and the car itself, is just a summation of parts . . . . after 15 years of ownersip I'm still trying to figure it out . .. personally the big difference I see between F motors and "almost everything else" is you have to know how to read a mic, telescopic gauges, and indicators PROPERLY . . .. the term "blueprinting" use to be thrown around when a guy did a proper job on an engine . .. anyone checked/confirmed the numbers on a blueprinted engine? Because I'm a manfuacturer I've measured a lot of parts . . . I remember hearing you give a mic to 3 different guys you'll get 3 different numbers . ... BS unless you want to start talking .0001" and I don't think there's a single feature that close (okay maybe some shafts and gears but I doubt anyone here is contemplating making those except me) . .. .001" is a mile when you know what you're doing.

I wouldn't claim to be able to do my own heart surgery yet . .. . a buddy of mine just had it . .. if there were enough years left in my life I'd go back to school "just in case" after all the differences of opinion between qualified professionals . .. huh . .. just like mechanics . His advice was if you ever have a procedure like that, talk to lots of doctors and educate yourself as much as you can about what they actually do . .. some people may not have the brain power (not meaning to insult) to understand what comes out of a doctors mouth . .. just like with mechanics . .. mechanic says replace 'cause he can't measure it or check it. As an engineer I can interpret and digest every word that comes out of a mechanics mouth when it's based on laws of physics . .. . unfortunately a lot of mechanics make up their own physics .

I must also had that I enjoy taking things apart and analyzing wear 'cause it just makes me a better engineer . . . it's called R & D but I can sympathize if you're tearing your motor down and don't joke about it as "research" with your buds.


Cheers,

Sean

 

don't forget the 'flat rate mentality' that permeates thru the 'profession'.

Knowledgeable guys like Adaptel do far better work than flat raters. I am going thru my TR major at this time & am spending a considerable effort fixing the crappy work that was done by the 'professional' before me.

things like ;
~ missing o-ring on the vacuum pump shaft
~ finger tight spark plugs
~ cracked alternator air vent housing
~ dented coolant pipe under the ac
~ wrong hose clamps
~ over tightened hose clamps
~ slop lithium grease splattered in the distributor caps from cam seal excess on install
~ from crank bolt only lightly tight (it calls for nearly 150 ftlbf if I recall correctly)
~ stripped threads on a cam gear cover to backing plate bolt hole
etc etc etc

rgds,
Vince

 

How do you know it was a professional...has anyone every sold one of these cars that had the heading in the ad :

Ferrari for sale : Hack mechanic did the work, weekend wariror while having a beer did the clutch at the trailer park ?

Your funny....how do you not know it wasn't the last 2 hack owners that were DIY and couldnt afford the car ? Let me guess, cause you know the dealer ....gotcha. What you describe ontop sounds like a weekend warrior to me ... not a dealer.

Ignorance is bliss sometimes.

 

You are both partly right.

I've seen a lot of schitty work done by "certified" technicians trying to get ahead of the book time. There's enough incompetence in the world to go around.

 

That reminds of the most frequently uttered response from patients when their Proctologist asks, "Why did you put this in there?" --- The answer is always, "No really, I fell on it... I tell you it was a million-to-one shot, Doc!".

Although obviously unlucky, that token is magical, Kevin. If I were you, I would have it encased in Lucite, and display it on your desk --- it's just too crazy not to laugh at from time to time...

What's even more nuts than the idea it even happened, is that you actually found the thing afterwards!!!

Glad you can get some sleep now... The back covers are irrelevant for you --- you've already had your lightning strike... Don't worry about it.

 

like . . ..... WOW . . .I'm buying or making rear belt covers

 

FIRST OF ALL... OH MY GAWD!!!! WOW WHAT A FIND!!! Ever since I first read this thread I have been thinking about it. And for how things to have progressed this far and to have a solution is remarkable. I for one thought that the theory of a circular foreign object was crap, but I was obviously wrong. I still am dumbfounded as to how a moving belt wouldd have the exact shape and pattern as a stationary object! Others here are wiser than me!

Anyways. I've also been thinking about the cover issue. Would it be silly to get a guard and drill holes in it so it vents any heat? That way, it would keep out foreign objects and it would let the heat escape. I hope this is not an idiotic suggestion... Oh well, I am sure all of you will let me know what a fool I am!

 

probably should start a new thread on this, but I thought of maybe making some new covers for the SMG2's adjustable pullies instead of carving up an old set . .. the last used set I bought weren't that spendy but I just hate cutting up castings.

Did the 2v ever have rear covers from the factory?

With the factory covers is it only the top that's covered or are the drive pulleys covered below?

Drilled holes is good . .. or my favorite . .. louvers .

Thanks,

Sean

 

WOW!!! Talk about a 1 in a gazillion freak event (or series of events....) I too now feel
much better about 'random failures' of belts in my 328

By the way - do 328s ('86) have rear belt covers?

Great CSI work!

Jedi

 

WOW!!! THAT IS FANTASTIC NEWS FOR YOU!!!!

This now qualifies for coverage under your auto insurance!!!! This is a road hazard!!! Same as driving over a rock, that takes out your oil pan!!!!!!!!!

Safeguard that coin, get some mechanics to verify that it was a road hazard, and you get a free (minus deductible) engine rebuild!!!!

Am I the only one that recognizes this fantastic twist of events!!!!

Wooohooooooo!!!!!!

 

That is an incredible story. Such an occurance is SO unlikely to be repeated that I would hardly give a second thought to getting belt covers. Such an unlucky stroke probably deserves the 'flipside' to its coin......

....go buy a lottery ticket!

 

You beat me to the punch.

I would suggest he calls his Insurance company in the morning and push for the claim.........and then he should buy a lottery ticket

This is excellent news !!

 

I had a 1/4" rock go in one of my 308 belts and poke a hole in it . .. you mean unlikely 'cause it's a coin?

 

D*m, Kevin, talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time!

Who'd of thought of a frigging NH toll token taking out a ferrari engine! Does indeed fit all the facts! Those tokens were a PITA to everyone driving thru NH, & now one comes back to destroy Adaptel's meticulously rebuilt engine!

I've got a '85 308 that I'll be doing body restoration work & a full major on next winter. It doesn't have the rear belt covers. Fer shure, I'll be making rear belt covers it!!!

Hm, think I'll use black powdercoated perforated steel. Comes with round, hex, & diamond shaped holes, in various sizes. McMaster-Carr has a good selection, go to:
http://www.mcmaster.com/
& type 'perforated steel' into the search box.

It provides ventilation, and will exclude all objects large enough to cause problems.

I especially like # 9358T371 it's got 1/4" holes & 11 gauge steel, s/b heavy enough not to vibrate/rattle & 1/4" holes on 3/8" centers will, on the average, keep much smaller objects out, while providing excellent ventilation.

 

+1

What is most amazing to me, is the coin was somehow retained in the engine compartment. I would have figured it did it's damage and dropped back on the ground...

 

Since you've got the cast-in bosses on the timing belt covers (that you could drill & tap), that certainly gives you a better option to add some sort of flat back protection covers. Like Verell's idea for the perforated material if temperature is an issue -- even if something gets thru most likely would just poke a small hole (rather than sever the belt) as luckydynes observed.

Don't have access to the US 308i-2V SPC, but no flat back covers (nor bosses on the timing belt covers) shown on US/euro carbed 308 nor euro 308i-2V.

 

Well, I hope so...

But, most road hazard scenarios are more definitive to substantiate a claim. I mean this scenario certainly has logic (and is most certainly what happened). But, it is not without alternate scenarios --- belts break all the time without objects (from the road) getting tossed into their works.

If you have a very good relationship with your insurance agent, he might let this slide... But, of course the motto of every insurance company out there is --- "Collect premiums, deny claims".

You may have to go to the mat to get this one to go your way.

 

Wow! I think I now have seen everything...

 

FWIW, the front belt cover castings on my '81 US-spec 2Vi have no bosses whatsoever --- so clearly never intended to have back covers from the factory. Of course, back covers could always be rigged --- even if one had to use clips instead of screws to hold them in place.

If someone wishes to add back covers, I wouldn't let the configuration of the castings stop them!!

I'm going to take the risk and keep mine open (no back covers) --- I like having the ability to get frequent and easy visual inspection of the works and the belts.

But hey, that's just me.

 

Who'd have thought?

I've seen engines rebuilt by insurance with less evidence.

Definitely worth running it up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes

 

That is amazing! I guess it puts all the naysayers and speculation to rest doesn't it.

 

Why not a SS screen as protection? Should be easy to fabricate and won't cause any heat issues...just make sure it's cleaned every so often.

 

New project for your product line I hope!

 

According to my parts manual U.S. spec. 328's came with rear covers and Euros did not. This has always made me believe that there was some safety law/regulation for the U.S. market that dictated they must be fully covered... you know, like the B.S. "Objects in the mirror are closed than they appear" type stuff. Not saying the covers are not a good idea. Clearly they are if overheating is not an issue. Just wonder why they were installed for the U.S. market unless Ferrari figured everybody in the U.S. is driving on gravel roads.