Why are 456 GTAs disliked.

Rifledriver can expand on this but basically from what I understand the tranny was USA made in such low numbers that there is zero repair support and zero parts support from the original manufacturer.....

So when it goes on the fritz....pow....you are done......

The car's value has tanked and the tranny cost to even replace the whole unit is almost equal to the whole car!

A shame, as I think the design is elegant..I'd search for a 6 speed, and the top of the line is the Schumi two tone paint edition, whatever it is called!

Ferrari Long Island had a low miles, 6 spd.in silver that was just......wowza!

 

I want to say Allison???........not sure....

Might search on it or PM Rifledriver.....if you are seriously considering a car....

They are stacking up on the used lots here like Hummers!

 

There's an unsold Duc999 in yellow at local shop..$16K??

Then I was watching races last weekend as the driver washed the front wheel out and dumped it...I thought:

"Ahhhh well, never mind"

Per salesman, yellow NLA 2006 and I want it to match me 308GTB....

Friends say I'll need a chiropractor after riding.....LOL!

 

The trans was made by Ricardo, a division of GM. There was nothing wrong with it per se but if it breaks, scratch one 456.

The bigger problem was acceptance of an automatic Ferrari. Nobody (almost) wants one and the few that do are considered round the bend. Look at how people that want F1's are treated and those are not even real auto's. Look at how people run the other way from 400A's, and those are bullet proof.

 

The 456 trans has been OK but how many have any # of miles on them? Not much of a data base to go on.

 

Just to clarify, Ricardo is a British company and is NOT part of GM.

http://www.tarragon-et.co.uk/investors/companyprofile.aspx

The odd thing about automatic Ferraris is that for whatever reason, buyers of new Ferraris do seem to want them. However, buyers of used Ferraris want nothing to do with them.

 

I can accept that despite what Ferrari told us that it is not part of GM but the transmission is made almost exclusively with Turbo Hydro (GM) parts and it says "Ricardo Inc. USA" right on it. At least the one sitting on the floor 20 feet from me does.


And when you say the buyers of new Ferraris want them, it is only a very small fraction of new Ferrari buyers. 456's were and now 612's are largely sold to dealers by awarding them greater #s of the popular model (430's) for every 612 that is taken off their hands. They are a very small part of the production totals.

 

Buyers of new Ferraris have a warranty. Buyers of used Ferraris may not.

 

If it's made with GM parts, what's the big deal about fixing them?

On Ricardo's website, it states that they did a "design re-adaption of GM hydramatic transmission for a rear transaxle for Ferrari 456."

As for new buyers wanting automatic transmissions, do you really think if new 456 buyers wanted manuals, that Ferrari would not have figured that out?

What you said is exactly right at the *end* of 456 production, but I'm not so sure it was true in 1997 or 1998 when they introduced the GTA.

 

Your question is a good one. Most write with no knowledge other than the fact that the list price for a new trannie is $60K. The internals are largely GM although the design is unique. No one has tried to service on of these boxes because generally they break as often as GM ones do with less than 20K of use - and assuming no abuse. However as a much more direct drive (low stall speed) they would not take kindly to drag racing techniques which are quite an important requirement in the US as the preferred form of street racing.

Lastly all the front engine cars are for old men. Not for cool guys and chicks which after all is the main reason in the US for buying a Ferrari as in looking cool. A silver 456 could be mistaken for a Jag or even a 6 series BMW so definitley not high on the impress me pole. This also ties to the other non use of Ferraris, which is, as it were, non use! The Front engined cars and particularly the 2+2 or Qutrroporto equivalents are meant to be daily drivers something for which the average F car owner in the US would never consider. So they are great for long distance driving and most who commute long distances would never consider using an F-car for that purpose unlike Europeans who think nothing of breezing through 3 countries before lunch!

So in summary - wrongly maligned by the ignorant, uncool, too plain, and generally not impressive enough for either the Starbux or the CC.

 

This begs the question, then, of what the cost is of converting a GTA car to a GTM car. For $60K (or whatever God awful cost) you have an awful lot of budget there for almost any project, I would think.

This is purely a theoretical exercise as I would never think of doing this nor would I buy a 456 over, say a TR.

 

"why are 456 GTAs disliked ?"

I guess the fact that it is a regular automatic transmission has less appeal for someone who wants a sports car.. If they had F1 transmission they would probably be more interesting to drive.
Has the cost of repair a real impact here ?? I am not sure.. think about replacing a F1 transmission on a 355 or 360, I guess not cheap either..but those do well in second hand market..

Now whether you like 456 or not is just a question of taste...
I personally think the design is one of the greatest from pinifarina and better than any of the V8 rear engine Ferrari..
In Tokyo you have so many 355/360/430 around that the V12 Ferrari really stand out, and actually attract a lot of attention.. ( if your purpose is to make impression then I have to disagree that 456 are uncool or un impressive )
I like to drive my 456 ouside Tokyo for a weekend, and the luggage space is great on those longer trips.. Think about the number dress/shoes/handbags that my wife has to bring just for a night out of town !!
Anyway, if you choose to buy a 456, it is for your own pleasure.. bottom line is if you like it and want it.. just go for it.. as I did,

 

In theory, you probably could. But, by the time you were all done you would have spent significantly more than just finding a nice manual transmission car and buying it.

 

Yo Chas!

Missed you at the weekend (Sunday), I didn't realise you had to fly out that day.

Re: GTA's
IIRC there is a difference of opinion in the UK v's USA.
In the UK the GTA's far outsold the manuals. SAo in the UK it is the manual's that are 'disliked'.
As such in the 2nd hand market, the manuals are cheaper because they are less loved.

I think htis maybe the opposite in the States???

On the servicing side. The 'auto box should be serviced every 30,000 miles or so. There is only one place in the UK that can do this properly and even the Ferrari main dealers ship the 'box to this guy (in Luton).

The dealers could do it but they choose not too because they can't be bothered to train the staff to do soemthing that will rarely be needed.
ie not many 456 owners want to do a lot of miles in their car.

Hope this is useful

 

Hey BigTex, which lots in Houston can I visit to see the 456s stacked up?
Ron

 

"Ricardo is also the worlds leading independent developer of the newly acclaimed Dual Clutch Transmission and in 2005 will become only the second production supplier of this technology to Bugatti for the Veyron high performance road car (in niche volume)."

So if they can harness 1,000 HP, why can't the 456 automatic survive normal driving.

What causes the 456 transmission problems anyway?

They mention Teledyne which leads me to believe that Rifledriver is more correct as to US ownership. It's possible it is a division of GM that's kept very quiet.

"Ford GT?

Full Service supplier of 750Nm 6 Speed Transaxle Engineering responsibility for all related systems (clutch, driveshafts and shift system) Concept to production including all validation testing in 2 years"

This company has to have US connections.

 

Only those who do not have one dislike it. Most miss the point.

My V-12 is sweet. Screw the little 6 and 8 toys.

 

I don't think the GTA box has a bad rep per se, it's just that if it does go the car is probably a total loss.

Also, for many of us shifting is just part of the fun.

BTW, my silver 456 has never been mistaken for a Jag or (gulp) BMW. It might be mistaken for an Aston, but I think I could live with that.

 

Transmissions have not been a big problem and as for functionality they really are good.


The problem with Ricardo is that Ferrari has a proprietary contract with them and they are not allowed to sell the transmission, parts, tools, or information. It is all the property of Ferrari Spa.

Eventually as with all things the transmissions will need to be fixed and or rebuilt. My personal experience along with the personal experience of quite a few others I have communicated with is that good transmission shops look at it as a device from another planet and want nothing to do with it even after being offered several times their normal rate. Good transmission shops have work backed up down the street and have no need to go off on an experimental learning experience that will probably cost them shop productivity and money. I understand their position I refuse Lamborghini work for exactly the same reason despite some very good offers. I already have a trade and I am doing well at it thank you. Their attitude is the same.



Do not take any of my comments as suggesting there is anything wrong with 456 automatic transmissions. It is only the prospect of future repairs that bothers me.

As for US connections the 456 trans was built here and it says Ricardo USA right on it.

 

Well that's a great response for sure, and I do believe they do have strong US connections especially since you have indicated it's made in the us.

 

Here is a response I recently received from Ricardo concerning the 456 transmission. It partially answers what I had thought:

"Dear Mr. Calo

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the Ferrari 456GT automatic transmission.

For reference only this transmission was modified from a GM Northstar 4L80T (transverse V8) and some parts may be common to this transmission.

The supply and support to Ferrari of this transmission was handled by a separate company and any further details should be sought via Ferrari directly.

I hope that this is of some help."

Now I don't know if this helps at all, but it does shed a bit of light on the origin and Rifledriver's validation of the "made in US" statement.

So, how Ricardo figures into this is a mystery, but for sure Ricardo did not directly supply it according to what was herein stated.