How to legalize a Challenge car?

95 355 Challenge cars are street legal, I have a client with a real C car that was raced and converted to a street car. No 355C has OBD 2 capability and as such 96 and up cannot be made street legal in the US without at least converting over the entire engine management system. The OBD 2 became a federal requirement in 96, hence the 95's are OK. I suspect there are other serious hurdles as well based on how the cars were imported.

 

Get a 95 F355 C if you must or don't waste your time. The DOT/EPA is a PITA to work with if converting one is even possible.

 

Was '95 the last year where the Challenge cars had (US) VINs?

 

Jim,
Here is a F355c on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-355-Challenge-Ferrari-HSR-Legal-Ready-To-GO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ98064QQitemZ4593313487QQrdZ1

Would that fit the bill?

 

Not sure but it was the last year that it could be legalized because of OBD1 or OBD2. You'd have to ask Martin or someone more knowledgable on the subject regarding whether they had vins or not. I'd assume they would but I'm probably wrong.

 

I would think with a US VIN there would be a way to make it "Indiana legal".

('96+ Challenge cars)

In IN:
there are no noise regs: Good
no emissions regs: Good
no inspections of any kind: Good
Need seatbelts: Got them
usu lights (headlights?): If not there now, could be added
bumpers of some fashion: Got them
and insurance: Collector car insurance is not a problem, but need the US VIN for street

 

AFAIK, there are no VIN's for challenge car's post '95. You could approach the problem from the other way round and take a '99 360 and 'challenge-ify' it.

 

The 2001 360C on Sheehan's site has an ID number........

 

Ok, here's the bottom line.

**NO** 1996+ 355 Challenge, and **NO** 360 Challenge cars were imported into the US with Manufacturers Certificates of Origin that would have allowed a state to issue a TITLE. These cars were imported solely as off-road, competition vehicles. Technically, you could theoretically get the 355 CH to a point where it would meet DOT specifications, much like importing a Euro car, but you could NOT do that to meet EPA specs unless you were to swap in a full OBD-II drivetrain.

Now, that doesn't mean that a clever person couldn't nevertheless GET a title for one of these race cars; some states are lax enough that one could probably do it. BUT, nevertheless, it's a serious violation of Federal law to drive such a vehicle on the street. Yeah, serious enough that in more than one instance the DOT/EPA has IMPOUNDED such a car and crushed it (possibly apocryphal story, but I believe it - a moron placed an ad listing a Porsche race car that had been "titled" and "registered". A "potential buyer" showed up, took a look, recorded the VIN, and attached a Federal notice of seizure to the windshield, impounded it, and it was crushed. Doh.)

Now, what are the chances that the EPA/DOT would come after you? Pretty slim. If you really want to do it, I suppose it can be done.

Realistically, though, you'd have something that would be painful to drive on the street, and slow(er) on the track. For a 355 Challenge, you'd need to add headlights and turn signals. Remember, no A/C, and oftentimes, no ventilation at all. Some have revised front bumper covers that don't even have cutouts for signals. You'll need to wear a HELMET ALL THE TIME, because getting into an accident without one means your head will smash into a roll cage bar (which may kill you, even if padded). You'll bottom out over everything, scrape the nose all the time, and be ridiculously loud (too damn loud if you're running the straight pipes). You'll need to buckle up the harnesses each time, after climbing into the cage. Some of these cars don't even have functional windows. Brakes will likely squeal badly. Race clutch is not designed for traffic. Rear wing cuts down on visibility. Oh, don't forget, putting on a quieter muffler, adding the lighting hardware, raising the ride-height, etc., will make you that much slower on the track.

As for a 360 Challenge, forget it. It's much worse. Not to mention the fact that while 355 Challenges were (could be) built from street cars, the 360CH is a far different beast from a 360 Modena. From a cost perspective, it'd be cheaper to buy BOTH a 360 Modena AND a 360 Challenge than it would cost to modify the 360 Modena to "Challenge" specs.

Basically, if you really, really want to have one, getcherself a 1995 355 Challenge, and make sure it comes with a title (that's what I did, but mine is track-only and doesn't have the street parts on it). A friend of mine with a car like mine did periodically take it to events and drive it on the street, but he's completely insane and, IMHO, wasn't much fun.

There are a LOT of threads on this topic, suggest you do a search for other opinions.

vty,

--Dennis

 

I think the only way to do it is to buy a smashed 355 or 360 with a clean title (depending on which model you are trying to get on the street), move the vin tag(s) onto the challenge car, then part out the smashed car to get your money back. It’s probably a federal crime (tampering with a vin) if you’re caught, but there is a fine line between a customized or modified car and a race car. As long as the chassis that “donated it’s vin is crushed while you watch, there is basically no way for anyone to ever know whether you added challenge stuff to the street car or a vin to the race car…your word against there’s and all that...and it works for race only motorcycles as well...not that I would ever do anything like this....that would be wrong.

 

Exactly correct in every way.

I warned my client about all those things when he was buying that Challenge car but he insisted it would be a great street car. He is a little sorry. Every month I get a call to return the car in another way to a street car. Next we are going to return it to a street suspension down to the rubber bushings. Before we are done he will have a 355 with interesting badges.

They are lousy street cars. The only advantage they provide is it is a decent track car you can drive there.

 

Dennis,

You're right on all counts. The only thing I would add is that strictly speaking, NO Challenge car which has ever been converted to race specs can legally be later "un-converted" and registered for street use. None. Not 348s, 355 of any year, nor 360s. Period. This was part of the original agreement among Ferrari NA, the original owners, the EPA, and the DOT.

This is not to say that it cannot be done, or that some of the 355s and 348s do not have numbers which will permit them to be registered. The DOT is extremely unlikely to check one of these re-conversions, particularly if not done by a dealer. But no one should believe that there is no risk at all. It may be a fraction of 1%, but it is there.

 

Still can't register it without having a serious connection and even then it's illegal. I don't know the specifications but I already looked into it for someone else a few years back and it was virtually impossible. If Indiana is anything like Oklahoma, who cares just drive it. As long as you an get insurance on it, the cops won't care.

 

Jim,
I guess that answers that. No US VIN is the dealbreaker for what Jim is looking to do.

Now, back to the other thread where we left off, and to think about Option #1 with a bit more vigor.

-Mike C.

 

Jim
Since I have been thinking of a dedicated track car myself, I'll share some thoughts. First, if it is to be a Ferrari, it will be a 355. The reason being, I like sticks and they are cheaper to buy and cheaper to do body work should there be an off road incident. But I may go with another marque entirely. But I digress. Let's say you can buy a good 355C for 60-65K. For another 60-65K you could buy a street 355B. With the 20-30K you have left over, buy a used full size p/u and open trailer. You can have all this and still be at about 150K. Your desire to wrench your own car will be fulfilled by the track car, believe me.

Good luck,
Dave

 

I'll re-state my previous post a little more clearly.

You absolutely can get a challenge car registered in any state.

You need to be a tad dishonest, but it's pretty simple to do. The hardest part is tracking down a donor car and not spending a fortune. Ideally you can find one that was wrecked but retained by the own (not sold to the insurance company) because in most states it keeps a clean title. Once you have a clean title, the matching vin tag and a couple pop-rivets, you're good to go.

Then you just call it a "race-replica" and enjoy it. You can change the lights and window if you want, but normally the local inspection station kid doesn't know to look for DOT markings or have a clue what the car should look like anyway. noise will get you a ticket way faster than non-DOT lights. I've had non-DOT lights, bumpers and an engine the EPA would laugh at on/in my car for several years and 2 states, no problem. I also own a "race replica" motorcycle...anything can be registered.

 

Ditto...I was made to sign all sorts of papers saying I would never drive it on the street. I was also sold the car w/o a title/MSO....but on a sales invoice

BUT ...having said that I know several 360 Challenges have made it on to public streets...naughty naughty....

 

I know one fool that drove a 348 Challenge over 20,000 miles in the last 21 months; in fact, he got arrested going through Richmond Kentucky on the way the the 05 FCA national meet. Jailed briefly, drove his car over 1,700 miles that weekend, and on the actual GP track at speed, IRP, all on Yokahoma AOR32s and straight pipes. No air, 100+ degree days, also covered in ice in the winter. Crazy...but then again, he once raced a flat bottom Sanger V-drive, and used it as a lake boat in all conditions. Did I mention his ears still ring from those days...

 

Hmmm... very interesting info, Thanks! If I may ask, where did you hear that? I ask because many 1995 model year 355 Challenges started out as street cars. Pure, 100%, titled street cars. Some were even drive on the street as regular cars for thousands of miles before being converted to Challenge spec. I don't know why DOT/EPA would be involved with these "modifications" to put it into Challenge spec. It's really no different than, say, someone building a World Challenge race car from a stock street car. Theoretically, there should be zero obstacles to converting it entirely back to street stock, if someone was crazy and rich enough to want to do it....

vty,

--Dennis

 

Hey, I think Dave is exactly right on the money. If your budget is truly $150k, then go and get yourself a PAIR of 355s. That way, you'll have something fast and comfortable and legal for the street, AND you'll have a real track car that you'll be able to enjoy (and it'll be as fast as any other 355 Challenge).

Heck, for a bit more than the $150k, I'll sell you my '95 355 B (a bit modified), AND my '95 355 CH (avec title, registration)!

vty,

--Dennis

 

Dennis,

I've sent you a PM explaining how I know about the legalities of these cars. I think you'll understand and agree.

I'll repeat that I don't think the DOT or EPA is out actively looking for these cars, and it can be done in ways that range from almost no risk to substantial violations of Federal law. There is just no 100% legal way.

O.G.

 

Yes, that was my point, as I returned to Sheehan's website to check...

Not a legal street VIN at all, but a seven digit ID number that wuold probably only be good, once a year in New Orleans, for street use......

Police motorcycle escort required!!!

Track is track.....street is street......

That would be a bummer, to watch them crush it.....