308 Water pump seals?

Phil - do you have part numbers for the seals ?

 

I bought one from Dennis McCann and it was just like you described. I do not recall exactly the part # but will look it up and I may also have the old ones I replaced (although broken)and I can take a pic of .

 

You may want to look into an industry standard # 409 seal, available widely. It is Stanless steel, and an up to date design. It fits pumps with a seal OD of 1.437 and is the one with the small lip on the outer shell of the seal that rests on the houseing when pressed in.
HTH.
Kermit

 

Here it is:
121553 $ 12.00 @ ( I think this is the small seal)
120948 $ 28.00

I do not think this is what you are after but you'll decide.

 

This thread has all of the seal & bearing varients for the various 3x8 waterpumps extracted from FPCs & FSBs:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/184361.html

Gianlucca's photo is of the 'small' ~29 mm OD seal.

Sounds like you need the older 'large' (usually pink) seal #100433 Anello di tenuta Sealing ring that measures ~41mm.

TRutlands should have both of them.

 

Would you happen to know if this fits the original, first, small-bearing pump (like on my GT4)?

I've got my old one on the shelf ready to be rebuilt, so I would try this if you know it would fit...

 

Is this the one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2494240855&category=34201

 

The color looked right, though...

 

Gianluca, the one I was refering to is for the later model, and will be too large to fit the early model smaller bearing unit. From the pic, I would say it could be the proper one, but it i difficult to tell. The 409 seal is a two piece unit,but with a smaller second seal part that goes on the rear of the impeller.There is two different types used on leter models, one that is slightly larger than the 409. I machine a sleeve to adapt them to fit the sightly smaller 409 to fit.
HTH

 

Hi Matt,
thanks for the info.
I have just replaced my seal with a new one from Denniss McCann but I am going to order a 409 from McMaster Carr (about $ 12 for both parts) and machine the sleeve to fit for next time I change the seal.

 

Phil,

You have e-mail

Cheers
Malcolm

 

Hello,
Birdman's WP was weeping at the rear hole so I'm rebuilding it. I need help identifying & locating a replacement seal.

When I got it apart last night, I realized that this was no longer a std wp, or at least it's not one of the varients I'm familiar with (see my link earlier in this thread).

Originally it appears to have been a large seal/large bearing pump. The bearings are std type #6302, only thing unusual is they've got bright orange seals and the visable portions of the races are very rusty!

MODIFICATIONS:
The seal mounting area in the nose has had a brass ring inserted(1st photo) to reduce the seal mounting OD area.

The ID of the ring measures ~36.3mm(1.43"). The shaft where the seal mounts measured ~15.8mm (0.623").
These dimensions are pretty close to those of the McMaster Carr #409 seal's 0.625" shaft, 1.437" OD. Can someone look at the attached photos & confirm that this is the seal?

The seal is a one piece ass'y (see photos). The inner seal is mounted on a sleeve that's pressed on the shaft. The sleeve extends thru the outer portion of the seal and is expanded slightly to keep the two parts together (last photo).
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Do what I can to help. Sorry about the low quality pic, but that is the one. I mesured it after it came out of the same box it arrived in from McM-C.
The ring to adapt it I spoke of earlier is in the pic. Lathed out of 6061 aluminum pipe, it measures .361" or 9.18mm long, the outer diameter is 1.618" or41.11mm ., and the ID being 1.437" or 36.50mm. I press them into the housing, with a bit of Locktite, and the large bore pumps can use this seal as well. HTH.
Kermit
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Tnx Matt,
As you can see in the attached picture, there's no seal mounting recess on the back of the impeller!
Thus we can't use a 2-piece seal like the 409. However, now we know what the 409 looks like & it's dimensions.

I'm sure my meas'ts are slightly off as I wasn't being super careful & the seal dimensions are actually the same as your meas'ts of the the 409 seal.

Hmm, Just noticed in the post that started this thread:

FerrariFixer,
can you take a look at the pix this & in my preceding posts & see if this looks like the 1-piece you're referring to you give me some info (eg: Ferrari and/or other P/N? None of my FPCs or supplements show a 1-piece seal!

Inquiringly,
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The seal you show in this picture is the std seal used on the current and the most prior waterpump (there have been many internal changes). It is the same design seal that has been used in the TR's since mid production and in my opinion is the first decent quality seal design for those pumps. It sounds as though someone has tried to modify an earlier pump to make it fit. Due to the many design improvements in the newest pump (have never had to repair one in the number of years it has been available) I will not rebuild previous pump designs. They go in the garbage. That means due to the reliability of the new pumps I have been for several years, out of the 308/328 pump rebuilding business. I suggest that for the sake of reliability you do the same. Those pieces of junk are not worth the expense or effort.

 

Brian,
How much will one of these newer pumps set me back and where can I get one? This started out as a belt change and we decided to rebuild the pump because it was there. There was nothing wrong with it. Now I'm looking at replacing a pump that wasn't even busted! It's one thing to cough up $90 for SS bearings and $40 for a seal...but....sheesh!

Birdman

 

I have only seen them come from Ferrari. It is a new manufacturer and they may still have a proprietary right to them as I have seen only the old pumps from the independants. Here they cost about $800, you should try F UK. Whatever you pay (within reason) I think it is worth it. You can tell the difference visually, the one I am talking about has a very rough surface as though it is sand cast.

Also if it was seeping as Verell says it had one foot in the grave anyway.

 

Whew! I think for $800 I'll invest $150 in rebuilding this one and milking it a few more years! $800 is three times the cost of replacing the belts and tensioners, which is the intent of this project. I realize that with some weeping, the WP was on the way out which is why we decided to rebuild it.

Birdman