http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225357 What do you guys think? Assuming you replace brake pads upon first warning will the rotors still have a very short life if used on the track?
At brake intensive track, a set of pads last one race weekend and the front rotors two race weekends on a 430 Challenge. Rotors show practically no wear as measured by thickness, but the ABS computer calculates brake usage by some algorithm taking into account how hard and how long each and every brake application. So if the SD3 reads 100% rotor wear then Ferrari's policy is replacement even if the rotors look fine and are well within thickness tolerance. Anyway you look at it, carbon ceramics are way too expensive and do not last nearly as long as people think they do.
You can always check the wear with the SD2 or SD3 via dashboard or brake ecu. They don't last the 100K, especially on the track.
cw- That is very interesting. Maybe I do not want CCM brakes on my 575M after all. Things are bloody expensive and, if they wear that quickly, do not seem such a great deal. How does that wear compare to normal steel rotors and racing brake pads, if you know? Taz Terry Phillips
Highly profitable. I sure enjoy my Challenge car racing weekends at less than $2,000 for entry, tires, brakes, and gas. Of course I'm the one that says when the brakes need to be replaced and I crew myself. Anyone want to dare 'challenge' me that my racing is any less fun and rewarding than the $25k a weekend kind?
How can you tell a ccm rotor is done? If wear is nil are they thinking time is the issue because they worry that there will be no warning the the failure will be a cracked grenaded rotor while trying to stop?
I have been told privately that hairline cracks and surface spalling or pockmarks are telltale signs of failure. I think it's more of a liability issue for Ferrari. Why risk being sued for failed rotors when you can charge mega bucks for replacements instead?
For the local track which is one of the most brake intensive tracks anywhere, 355mm diameter 72 vane front Brembo steel rotors on 360 Challenge lasts one race weekend. Brake fade is also noticeable towards end of each session. Rotors gets red hot. Compared to CCM it's less than 1/10th the price. I believe 380mm diameter 72 vane steel rotors will be about as durable as CCM. Weight & rotational inertia of steel rotors are the obvious performance penalties. As for bite and modulation I actually prefer the steel rotor/pad combo we have right now. Image Unavailable, Please Login
No arguments here. CCM or carbon carbon brakes are for big budget teams. We are trying to switch our 430 Challenge cars to steel rotors like FIA GT2 and GT3 cars.
For the person who does not hit the track, the urban driver, the benefit is that there is NO brake dust. The Enzo wheels stay cleaner than the rest of the car as long as I do not drive in the rain. Also, the discs will last the life of the car if you stay off the track, I am told. aehaas
I agree!!! I was at Sebring this weekend. The 430 Ch crashed, Enzo burned it's brakes up, and the Scuderia had brake problems. The 355 was the last one standing. Not the fastest, but the most durable and the whole weekend was about $2500.
Interesting, I know dealers and race shops that replace steel rotors with hairline cracks too. Hairline cracks don't bother me too much, but I'm also religious about looking the entire rotor over after every single session. Any cracks or warping where I rotate the rotor and there is rub on just one part, then it is replaced. The Brembo and GiroDisc rotors I have run on the 355 Challenge are VERY durable, I've actually never had one fail.
cw- Thanks for the very authoritative information. Guess I will stick to my steel rotors and Pagid racing pads. Taz Terry Phillips
So whats the point of these super expensive ceramic rotors if they wear out in track use in a 1000 klm or less? You can replace your standard rotors for a couple of grand. Certainly cast rotors are perfectly fine for street use (...you can't use the performance of the ceramic rotors on the street and who cares if they last a life time on the street considering the obviously cheaper standard rotors vs the 20 g cost for ceramics) I guess I just don't get it.
CCM is much lighter so car will be quicker. It can also withstand higher temperature therefore it is much more fade resistant than steel. Unfortunately the cost of trying to squeeze out the last few percent of performance goes up exponentially not linearly. So you have to decide for yourself if it is money well spent. Personally I have steel rotors on all my street going Ferraris.
Aren't the carbon rotors on the new Corvette? Seems that crowd wouldn't tolerate unusual operating costs, track or not.
Not to hijack the thread but just becuase it works well on a racecar doesn't mean you should it will work on a street car. Racing clutches, High temp brake fluid, Non Detergent engine oil, Racing brake pad compounds are just a few examples of things that will cause very quick failures on a street car. The clutchs will wear out in a month of stop and go driving. The high temp brake fluid absorbs moisture and does not lubricate seals as well. Racing oils have no detergent so they don't foam as much and sludge is not a problem since we change the oil every race. They also have a higher zink additives that will damage emissions and some of the racing brake pads require the driver to heat up the brakes on the pace lap before they will work. Not a good trait on a street car if you are on the highway and haven't used the brakes in a while and the car in front of you slams on his brakes.
ND- They are only on the ZR1, $120+K car. Not your normal Corvette. On the street, the rotors should last the life of the car. The ZR1 was not designed as racetrack car and is much more compliant than a Z06, much like the 599, but it is quick on a racetrack, thanks to the same basic shocks as the 599 and much improved Michelin Zero Pressure tires. 638 hp does not hurt, either. Although I have not priced the replacement parts, you can bet they are less than those for a Ferrari. Taz Terry Phillips
