Update: 456 Smoking on Startup

I know a couple of folks here have asked for updates on my 2000 456M problem with smoking (initially on startup, now profuse smoke that persists during any engine running).

Car made it to Ferrari of Denver, they had it in the shop today to run initial tests.

1) they said it completey smoked out the shop. Had to open everything up and turn on the fans. Glad to know the problem repeated itself for the dealer, anyway

2) The ran a compression check, it "was all over the map". The car had a good compression check in July as part of my PPI (all 12 cyl 130 +/- 5 psi). They said no point in doing a leak-down, it won't hold.

3) They're now removing the intake to get a boroscope down the intake plenums. I'll know in a day or 2 what they find.

4) Most certainly something in the valve train, still betting on oil-seals or guides. Outside chance some funky gasket problem is involved as well.

I'll know more next Monday/Tuesday and will post with updates. I appreciate the interest in knowing if this is a valve-guide problem or something more random and specific to my car. More to come...

 

Brian,

As always, you're advice is spot-on. I only had a quick conversation with the shop today as I'm on travel on the East Coast. I will have a more-detailed conversation with them Monday and will learn a bit more on why they felt a leak-down test wasn't appropriate/needed. Generally, FoD has been good to many FChat folks and they get high marks; I've been happy with their prior service on other cars (I had a 88 TR that had a cat/engine fire which they restored very nicely).

I guess I would ask that you blame me, the messenger rather than jump to a conclusion that FoDenver was at fault or not doing a proper job. I owe it to them to get a bit more detail than I was able to gleen from the short phone contact today.

I'll post updates and more info when I have them...

(and to those that asked, please excuse my anonymous posts here; some very bad experiences on other boards have made me a bit gun-shy about posting personal info...)

 

Update:

Talked with FoD this morning, they got a leakdown on the left bank, will do the right bank today.

Results show a number of possible problems:

left bank. Compression from 140-170. Leakdown results below.

#7 20% - exhaust valve
#8 26%
#9 10%
#10 14%
#11 40% - exhaust valve
#12 10%

4 of six also had leakage past the rings.

On the right bank, compression was 175-180 except #2, which was 140psi dry and 175 psi oiled (also indicative of ring issues).

Obviously, we'll learn more when the heads come off. Rings and valves look like the minimum repair need; hard to say the source of the problem at this point.

Hard to say what's up, with both exhaust and ring problems, did the engine suck something up?

More to come...

 

24,000. Also, I had a full PPI done on purchase in July with good compression numbers.

I'm an optimist; I'll have a *great* car coming out of this, with a tight, new engine.

 

I asked FoD to take pictures of internals on disassembly for this same reason. I'll post as soon as I have them.

 

I'm on business travel through next Sunday, and FoD has 1 other car with a deep-diagnostic/repair order. I don't expect they'll have the heads off until late this week, I may not have a substanative update until next Monday or Tuesday.

I'll post as soon as I hear anything (and pictures if/when I get them).

Thanks

 

No overheat in the car since I acquired it this summer; I never saw the water temp over 190. The repair records do show a fix for a leaky radiator 2 years ago. No other notes regarding overheat problems in the history.

BTW, I'm nearly certain the Motronic 5.2 ECUs in the 456M keep a record of highest rpms, temps, etc. I haven't gotten the SD3 readout yet from Ferrari of Denver, but that's one item on my list.

Lead tech at FoD is out at 599 school; they've got another tech pulling the heads tomorrow, but nothing serious to be done until the lead tech returns next week.