456GT Upgrades

I looked into this a while ago... There is a Tubi exhaust for the 456 - they come as a set and they are rear boxes (see pics below) around £1,800 I was told (but I reckon with a bit of haggling etc...)

test pipes to replace the cats are (I think) around the same price again (see also below).

19" wheels will go on BUT You will need to play with the suspension geometry to make them look right. 19s will still have a lot of air above the wheel since you will need to keep the rolling diameter (the overall size of the new wheel/tyre package will need to be the same as with the originals - normal rule of thumb - go up an inch in diameter come down a profile in tyre profile) the same otherwise you will need to regear the speedo, odometer etc.

To remove the "air" you will need to lower the car. This is straightforward since the bottoms of the spring platforms screw down. However, you will need to have the steering/suspension geometry reset AND may need stiffer springs to prevent the newly lowered car body making contact with the wheels. Steering geometry will set you back around £350-400 at an independent.

HRE do some nice wheels....

http://www.hrewheels.com/ShowRoom/

Select the 456 and play around with the wheels - it will show you them on the car.

Or Kahn wheels here in the UK (these are around £400 a rear and £350 a front - each) - My fave's here (thinking of these my 355) are the RSC2s - split rim v.nice

http://www.kahndesign.com/collection/rsc2/index2.htm

(see also below).

Finally - unless you have already picked up on this already - beware the 456 window problem (as I discovered when looking) many of them have a problem where there is a gap between the trailing edge of the door windows and the seal. Leads to drafts, water getting in, noise etc. It can be up to half an inch! Should have been fixed with new window moteors/regulators and bottom bracket under warranty but many escaped this (costs £7,000 at a main dealer - maybe more and can be done for £3,000 or slightly less if you find a good specialist - I think DAN had a quote of £700 - £1,500 or so to get his done at Rardley?) Anyway - they can be adjusted but after a while it comes back unless fixed and the amount of adjustment that can be done reduces each time.

Hope this helps.
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The Stud Pattern (five holes 108 PCD) is correct but I don't know what offset your wheels are or what offset is required on the 456.

The front offset for the 456 is 50mm (8.5"wheel) and the rear is 24.6mm (10" wheel) this is based on the 17" wheels fitted at the factory. You need to be pretty similar to prevent them from rubbing on the shocks/inside arches.

Normally the 348 has offsets of 7.5" 49mm Front and 9" 68mm Rear

You can always use spacers to get the offset right - check out Hill Engineering - thats where I got mine from.

they are in the UK: http://www.customferrariparts.com/homemainferrari.htm

Your wheels should have details of size and offset stamped on them somewhere (you might have to take one on each axle off to check!) but post the numbers here - someone will tell you what size spacers you need.

BTW - what type of Kahns do you have? any pics?

 

www.scuderiasystems.com have a sound file of a 456GT with a Tubi in the 'media' section.

They might be able to advise you on upgrades too- good guys.

Robert.

 

I'm pretty sure Kevin has after.mkt exhaust too on his 456....

 

You're right Tony. Mine has a Koenig (back boxes only) and Prancing has a Hamann system on his. Of the two I would say Prancings is better. Tubi system on this car is f***ing loud! Whatever, the car is way too quiet as stock; you'd never guess there was a V12 in there.

Ajay or Manu will be able to advise on all these points. IIRC you do have to drop the suspension, in which case 18" wheels do the job. Personally I haven't done this, since the car as stock, and in 'sport', will sometimes bottom out over yumps, which I guess would be worse with lowered suspension. You do have to be pressing on for this to happen though.

Kevin

 

The best thing you can do is put the money for 19" wheels and bean can exhausts towards buying a 456M rather than a GT. The M is such a vastly better car with all the many "issues" of the GT resolved. And the windows issue is only one of the minor ones, albeit one you notice straight away. But the GT bonnet with the two air outlets looks much nicer......

Its a fab car, the 456, you won't be disappointed.

 

I'm with you on that Kevin - mine must be standard as it's disappointingly mute. Why do you prefer Gareth's Kevin? Sounds like new boxes will be my next purchase (after the clutch...).

Lorks this is adding up - who'd have thought a Ferrari could be this expensive to run...

Dan

 

It's mainly because it's a more complex exhaust note. When I first heard Gareths, I did think of replacing the Koenig, but I'm pretty happy with it actually. If it were me, I'd take my time and listen to a few systems in situ; there's just no substitute for hearing these things first hand. I gambled with the Koenig, never having heard it before I ordered it (Scuderia Systems didn't exist at the time). If you're ever up this way visiting Simon, drop me a line and we'll meet up. You should hear Gareths car too, for comparison. It's worth waiting for; it's a bit like having a new car!

Kevin

 

I don't know if Capristo make a system for the 456, but the 355 system sounds absolutely stunning. It will be my choice for an upgrade when fiscals allow... quality is right up with the best, and slightly cheaper than a Tubi too!

Robert.

 

Thanks for the invite Kevin, I should be up in a few weeks so I'll be in touch

Felix referred to Hill Engineering for spacers - has anyone any experience of their pedal sets and gearknobs? - I'm tempted by both. The clear plastic coating has flaked off my knob (steady!!) and left a mottled surface and the standard pedals are really very boring.

D

 

For what it's worth, I've just a week ago replaced the stock 17" wheels and P zero tyres on my 456 with 19" split-rim wheels (allegedly as ordered by one J.Todd and M.Schumacher for their new 575s a few months ago) and low profile P zero Rossa tyres. N.B. This has been a change of total radius of less than 2 millimetres so no changes to either suspension setup or odometer. The wheel arches do look much better filled now (and remember that you need to take a 456 out for a spin for a few minutes after you've jacked it up to change wheels, because of the self-levelling rear suspension - so don't be shocked by an initial gap on first fitting).

The massively lower profile tyres have made an OH-MY-GOD! difference to the handling and cornering. I feel like I've got my 355 back! As the rears are now 305s and the fronts 295 wide this is a significant difference to the standard tyres (285 rear and 255 front I think, but can't recall off-hand), which does tend to follow any camber a tiny bit more than before, but the extra width allows waaaaaaaay more grip in corners including the ability to get on the throttle that much earlier without sending the back out...

I recommend you source 19" wheels asap, and any good supplier will ensure that your tyre profile compensates to prevent a radius change. I was told that only about 12 to 15 sets of the wheels I have were made in the world so far, but if you have five grand the factory will sell you a set (tyres about another twelve hundred sterling on top unless you talk nicely to Marcus at Wembley Tyres) both plus VAT. I got it for rather less than that, but that's unlikely to be a repeatable deal, I'm afraid. No matter - lots of other folks will sell you 19" wheels for 456/550/575 (but BTW, often not for 360 or 355 as they don't have the width in the arches for such wide tyres without fitting spacers, etc.) as other kind postings show.

In my (only limited miles but with gusto) experience so far, I'd say this is the modification that a 456GT is crying out for (had the windows fixed with 456M regulators in October 03 at vendors expense). Once done, you have no need to spend further on the larger 550 anti-roll bars or any other changes to damping / bushes / etc., as most of the cornering roll is in the 17" tyre-walls not the suspension.

Either the 550 18" wheels or anything larger will also have the benefit of allowing one other major mod that the 456 cries out for, which is of course much better brakes. The 550 'Fiorano' brake package (same massive Brembo 340mm discs and calipers as on an F50) will go on wheels of 18" or above. Only needed on the fronts, as in trackday serious use, there is less than 20% of the cars weight on the rear axle under braking. This would be a couple of grand from a non-franchised near-London F-car place like Macari, Verdi, DK, KHPC, etc. I would guess.

Finally, as for the exhaust, I would personally go for either the Tubi cat replacement pipes or some cross-over pipes (in the central section under the cabin) and leave everything aft of that including the rear boxes standard. This way you liberate the 30-odd bhp sapped by the cats, but prevent the artificial "kettle-drum" loudness and mid-range reverberations so carefully engineered into TVR exhaust systems. Yes the 456 is pretty much the quietest F-car of the last decade or so, but at the Tubi end of the spectrum, you risk failing noise tests at many UK circuits (although in most of Europe they don't bother...) if you're into trackdays. Your choice entirely, this is only MHO, and I've left my exhaust entirely stock for now and have no performance complaints. Many other excellent postings around here on exhaust choices....

I close by saying that I think it most unlikely you will regret 456 ownership (at current excellent value-for-money in low- and mid- forties for something UK RHD from 97 or 98 if you shop around), as several of the posters in this thread will testify. Possibly. I seem to recall a recent thread entitled, "Who hides the running cost of their F-car from their wife?". Guilty!

Best of luck.

James.

 

James:

Which brand of wheels did you buy. It was not clear to me and I did not find anything on Wembly's Tyres

Thanks

MB

 

Thanks Jimmy! OK I'm definitely interested in the 19s and I'd like to see some pics too. What I'm after is enough information that Scuderia Systems can source the items for me.

Kevin

 

Guys,

Sorry for the rather imprecise information. I will get all the right numbers on my wheels and tyres for you and post them up here later (tonight or tomorrow latest). The 19" wheels are an extra option on the 575 from the factory as far as I've been told, but let me source accurate info and get back to you. Possibly for cost reasons, you might want to go with other manufacturers wheels (don't forget the prancing horse on yellow at the centre is just a plastic disc that you can transfer across easily) and then go with P zero (rossas if you want) of the correct size. What I've been told so far is that 18" standard 550 wheels, the newer 18" standard 575 wheels and most 19" wheels will all go on 456/550/575 interchangeably without any spacers, etc. Only radius change including tyres needs to be monitored carefully. 18" 550 wheels and tyres would be a fair bit cheaper (around twelve to fifteen hundred pounds for both second-hand privately I've seen) and P zero or Bridgestone SO1/SO2 tyres easier to source, but once the 19s had been put on my car for me to test-drive I just didn't want to give them back. Yes I know, I fell for that old sales trick....

If taking 19" wheels onto a 360 or 355 you probably might need spacers to accommodate the width without hitting the inside of the wheel-arches, but I think some suppliers may make a 19" wheel of a width that fits on a 360 (Harmann website?). London 7' width limits are scary enough as it is!

I've kept my standard 17" 456 wheels and tyres in case I ever buy a 550 or sell the 456 as standard in the future, and if I do go for a brake upgrade will do the same with them....

I will also sort some pictures of the wheels (if it ever stops raining in London) and buzz them up here.

J.

 

James

Just to fine tune your note. No spacers required if you stick to lower profiles such as CS tyres. These are exactly the same wheel (to within 1%) diameters as the higher profile 18" rims. They are only 10mm wider and I haven't heard any scuffing yet.

 

Kevin,

As requested, here's a not very good pic of my new wheels and P zero rossa tyres - flash photos in an underground carpark not too successful I'm afraid. Also here's the correct tyre info (apologies for complete rollox I posted previously) which is : Front 255/35 ZR19 (96Y) and Rear 305/30 ZR19 (98Y). You can see that the profiles are nice and low due to the two inch bigger wheels and note how the standard brake disks now look ridiculously too small ! Any recommendations on cheap Brembo / AP suppliers gratefully received.

Let me know what you find in terms of other suppliers of 19" wheels, (Harmann, Euro-Sportscars, etc.) as I'm sure P zero rossa will fit quite a number of different 18" or 19" wheels.

Best of luck.

James.
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