Car design is harder than I had thought... help please

sadly,not so much,Jeff.The Directors/Chiefs attend endless meetings,not much time for sketching...............and the designers that are actually designing pretty much all use one of the many computer programs for their artwork.Phoyoshop,Alias,Sketchbook Pro.,etc.,etc.
Still have some of Jerry's sketches!Figured I save them

 

here's a site John & Jeff you guys might like, if you haven't already seen it before ..has a ton of GM history and designers in it

http://deansgarage.com/

 

yes I love that site.Gary & I were classmates at ACCD,and worked together at GM.He always has the coolest artwork on his site.Great historical reference material.

 

hey John, i haven't have any luck finding images of Jeff Palmer's artwork that Jeff speaks of ....do you have any pictures by chance?

i did come across this cool lil' write-up about him on the CCS site
http://www.collegeforcreativestudies.edu/hs/alumni/transportation?personid=493

i like how he distills good automotive design down to a word: "compelling"


i'd love to hear some further on what features you guys see in the lexus lf-lc that makes it stand out to you?

 

Jerry Palmer was involved with every Corvette from'74-'02.His work was published in Car Styling for the 2 rotor/4 rotor Corvette showcars from the '70's,the C4,Corvette,& the Corvette Indy.As Jeff mentioned ,Jerry's sketches were very effective,done with blue Prismas or blue VeriThins.

There is a reason the Lexus Lf-lc won Best Concept Car Design at thew '12 NAIAS last Jan.It has the right proportions.New and fresh form vocabulary/surface development. It has exquisite detailing,not relying on hackneyed old ideas,repurposed for another car. It exudes beauty,something that is sorely lacking in much of vehicle design today IMO.There is nothing goofy/silly happening with the execution.Lorenzo Ramaciotti,former Ferrari/PininFarina Design,now Chrysler/Fiat Design was with the group of designers that were evaluating the vehicles to determine Best Concept Design,was equally taken with how well the Lexus design looked.Pure beauty & sex..................hard to beat that combination.The George Barris Kandy Red was maybe a bit OTT,but it did what a good showcar does,grabbed your attention.The old saying: " If you want to make the covers of all the car magazines.......paint it red!".

 

i added 'corvette' to my search parameters ...this is the only image of his drawings i was able to find online so far? vette c4 model


okay, i thought maybe there was some peculiar features of note ...it is a very sexy car to be sure
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

yep,that's one of Jerry's sketches

 

Traditionally, cars have been designed by their reflection patterns. If a car is designed by it's reflections, people see nice reflections and think that the car is good looking, they don't realize they are really evaluating the reflections. For this reason, if there was no shiny paint, cars would look substantially different because designers would be designing form instead of reflection. The LF_LC ignores some classic rules of attractive reflections and concerns itself more with form interaction, an example being the line running forward above the rear wheel arch and below the line coming back from behind the front wheel arch, and the different surfaces interacting between the two. Another strong example is the A-pillar, which, by itself could be somewhat ungainly (and certainly overstyled) but seen with the surfaces around it, it is an organic conclusion of the intersection of the hood and fender. That area is certainly the most unusual, controversial, and interesting surface on the car. It appears as though the front fender is attempting to flow up the a-pillar (something I think designers wish could work but rarely does) but is then chopped off by the hood surface, creating the unusual but natural intersection. That being said (about the design being more about the form then the reflections) the designer was very aware and precise about what the reflections were doing.

 

Cool! ...thanks John
just that short evaluation teaches a LOT ...i'm reading a bit on reflections and design language ...honestly the books thus far don't get to much into specifically ....but i can see it's a lot more involved then i would have first thought, certainly more than just "make the reflected line smooth & level"

 

Great post.You nailed it with the comments regarding the A-pillar.At first glance I thought.....WTF ? You can argue about the execution,but when you put the whole car together,it made sense.That's what I meant in a previous post that the Lexus pretty much broke most of the form surface development rules,without being silly or goofy.The design holds up well.Again,I give them kudos for having the bal.s to do it.

 

fabulous ....a question for you both ...what is it you are looking for primarily in "reflections" on a design your working? ...is it just smooth transitions between panels? ...to reduce how many along the length? ...that a reflected line runs parallel to a body panel seam?
i have no idea, just curious as to some thought process that happens there?

i read one commentary by ian callum (i forget which concept car it was, but not his own) where he remarked how the car was "a mess ...look at all those multiple horizontal contour lines"

some sketching i'm doing today, i'm practising with high and low shoulder/waist line, and light(ness) above/below that ....on the same overall car (copied the same car outline to draw over top of), to view how it changes the appearance

 

The simple definition is that reflections are the horizon,or objects being reflected into the surface of the object you are viewing.generally,the light below the horizon is dark.....and the light above the horizon is light,and where they merge is the "core".It all depends on the light source,and how it's being generated.Look at any car in side view,and with a light source,real or artificial,there will be a horizontal breakup of the light separated by the horizon.I know this sounds complicated,but look at any shiny surface,and I think you'll understand the principle.I don't believe Mr.Callum's comments were referring to the reflections per say,but probably the amount of "design" lines of the car he was referencing.Without knowing what car he was referring to however......we're really guessing...

 

yes, i think he IIRC was refering to the bodylines (creased) in the bodywork

okay, yup i think i got it ...i know my terminology isn't always the same, but i'm practising that in sketching today, looking outside & from photograph (to make an accurate light distribution i can) ...i notice how the 'core' (darker area below reflected light line) can be raised or lowered with the height of the shoulder line of the side, if that makes sense

 

yes that makes sense
some of the books previously mentioned make better reference to this than I can

 

cool!

yes, i'm going through many of those now, some i listed before, waiting to come in ....right now reading through; "masters of car design: larry edsall" , "a century of car design: penny sparke" and "retrofuturism, the car design of J Mays: hodge"

my neighbors must think i've lost my marbles ...walking in & out & in & out, standing staring at the car from different angles, and going back in

 

no need to go in & out
just pick up any car brochure/car magazine & study how the light hits the reflective surfaces,and you'll be there

 

oh yes, i have tons (thousands of pics on the computer), but can't change my POV like still-life ...it's okay, they already knew i was a little nuts!

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7U-D6fTCo0[/ame]

 

hey Bounce

looking all over through sources, it seems that Sketchbook (express / pro / designer) appears to be very popular ...i've not used it, so i can't speak to it's ease of use, but may be a place to look

here are some cool youtube vids (random) with sketch work happening
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml17ahC9TEA&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrCXYb7hIfk&feature=related[/ame]
with tutorial
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bwch3hZP8&feature=fvwrel[/ame]
tutorials
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojzlnLF-mho[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipLdcwXxA4Y&feature=related[/ame]

these ones are quite good (even if her voice gets a tad annoying )
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5hZB6uD4l0[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nS3TOXc8uw&feature=channel&list=UL[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlCV72ZbEvk&feature=channel&list=UL[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojzlnLF-mho&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChGpIBOD0p0&feature=related[/ame]

as for graphics tablets, after some research, i just purchased a wacom bamboo create tablet ....it is the medium sized tablet with touch sensitive pen, and some sotware, priced at $200 ....the smaller one is $100 but really small, and the best model is $500 and larger with a high end pen

 

nice video of the Senior Class @ CCS last month:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtpwuPzkmcg[/ame]

 

cool! ...where's your cameo appearance?

 

wasn't there the day they filmed.........working at job #2

 

So what is the real take on all the GM design management changes announced today?

Jeff

 

i had to search out what you meant...lots of changes, ed welburn still vp of global desgn though ...is lutz still consuting global product design?
http://www.cardesignnews.com/site/designers/whos_where/display/store4/item259836/

 

Also look at what is reported by Autoweek on the reorganization. They posted their info before Car Design News did yesterday.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120618/CARNEWS/120619817