The official replica/re-creation thread | Page 44 | FerrariChat

The official replica/re-creation thread

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by WILLIAM H, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
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    tewksbury
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    george burgess
    "United we stand, divided we fall" What I am advocating here is some kind of organization that includes ALL replicas of Ferrari cars not just individual models.Until an effort is made in that direction these cars will continue to be outcasts in the Ferrari community.I have no intent of expecting any kind of equal footing with the "real thing". Far from it. But if there is ever to be some form of legiitimacy created for these cars there needs to be some kind of organization created to form a foundation with sprcific guidelines,objectives and rules. Someone or group of someones needs to take the lead on this if anything is to come of it.As a suggestion would be to encourage Ferrarichat to start a seperate web site for "replicas" which would create a focal point from which interest and participation could be created. The other sites would not feel infringed upon by "replica chat" which could then flourish on its own. just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  2. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
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    george burgess
    YES YES YES. See my remarks in answer to thread #23. tongascrew
     
  3. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    Sean
    I think between recreation or tribute, replica and fake there are a lot of grey areas and at the fringes the lines truly blur. Where do we put a Hawk stratos, pretty much identical body suspension etc, but alfa V6. Very much the same as the original but different power source, compare this with an era Cobra which may have original type 427 or 428 ford power but is in every other way different yet very close to the original.

    What I am driving at is that there are cars that replicate the original experince and look very close but are not nut and bolt recreations, but are better than what used to be termed a kit car or a fake. We are talking ranges of acceptability. My grade on the Noble with the dino engine is that in the ferrari club I belong to as long as it is ferrari powered it is Ok, so once again we have complexities of grade and acceptability.

    Good recreations are now worth serious $$$ and as dealers will make money selling them they will be pushed more into acceptable range. Is a 250SWB made off of a same year 250 model ferrari not just a rebody? How do we rate a classiche 4 cam which was really a frame but is now a complete car. Probably this all fits into some type of matrix.

    One thing for sure, however classified there are some very interesting and good cars that fit into these non original categories, and there are now enough of them to start looking at classifications. FIA has made a start and broken the mold of acceptability, time to add some further classifications.
     
  4. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Sean

    Seems a very logical approach to begin classification
     
  5. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2004
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    We can talk this subject to death, and we will always have conflicting opinions. How about we start posting some pix? I would if I had any.
     
  6. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    Dec 30, 2006
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    #1081 GIOTTO, Nov 5, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
    3,627
    Disagree. I only use two catogries; one is "real cars", the other one is "fakes". The rest is semantics and failed trials to put the same thing down nicely. Best wishes, Kare
     
  8. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    David Goerndt
    #1083 davidgoerndt, Nov 6, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ok here's an interesting case. This is a car that was on display at the 2007 Cavallino Classic. This is not a NART spyder although it had a NART badge. It turns out it was a cut 275 GTB/4. Even though this is a real Ferrari, it is not what it purports to be.
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  9. Pass

    Pass F1 World Champ
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    Feb 29, 2008
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    Mark Passarelli
    This is a little off topic but I would like an opinion from various posters here; what would THIS be considered? Recreation, replica, continuation or fake or??????
    The car is essentially a compilation of genuine Mercedes Benz 300SL Gullwing used, refurbished and NOS parts. These parts came from various restorations I have conducted over the last 25 years of restoring these cars. I have also bought cars in the past that came with spare parts and have saved these for such a project. There are NO NON 300SL parts on this car; there are NO Sedan parts that are similar but used to replicate genuine 300SL parts involved. everything is GENUINE Mercedes with exception of items that would normally be replaced anyway on a modern restorataion that might be provided in the aftermarket. . The frame was built using another cars original chassis for a jig and then fabricated to the original specification using a majority of factory supplied crash parts. As for the origin of each of these pieces I can only say that the engine came from a Gullwing in Daton Ohio that had a roadster engine installed in its place. The rear axle came from some parts I purchased from a local dealer as well as the body sheet metal. I can account for all the parts here and have cross checked the origins with DMV and none of the components have been found to be of dubious origin. The car is complete and will be indistinguishable from a factory supplied car from say 1955. This car has been accepted to the Gullwing Group Registry as the last car registered. What would it be classified as? Fake, Replica? Recreation? OPININS PLEASE. Thanks
     
  10. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Dave Powers
    To borrow from tongascrew, "just one man's opinion"... here goes-
    from the sound of what you're describing, the people whose judgment I value would use the term 'bitsa' or 'built-up car' to describe this project. While at first those might sound like pejoratives, in my experience the terms aren't- they're simply attempts to specifically describe what you have in a shorthand that is recognized by many.
    Having said that, I think the whole question gets pitched into another discussion when the Registry accepts the project in the manner you described. Not saying it's good or bad- I think it's a case by case thing.
    At the end of the day for me, the real danger lies in someone resurrecting/recreating a car from nothing (think the TR and Alfa in Dave Biggs' fire) and then one day someone tries to pass them off as substantially more than they are (were that to happen).
    In the meantime, it sounds like you've built something you can drive and enjoy.
     
  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    This is S/N 10527 owned by Charles Yassky, USA. A conversion. Done by Carrozzeria Egidio Brandoli of Montale (near Modena) with new leather by Fratelli Luppi of Modena.
    Marcel Massini
     
  12. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ
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    Nov 4, 2006
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    Marc Sonnery
    If anybody has photos of the British Nembo spyder replicas I would be very happy and thankful to see them.

    There was the one made by the late David Barraclough, featured in Classic & Sports Car about 2 decades ago, which I saw at Silverstone circuit when I was living and racing there 20 years ago: it wasn't quit right, and then there was a later car, dark blue, (perhaps 5095 but not sure anymore) and then there was talk of another being built in the uK in the late 90's...

    Thanks in advance for any photos and info!

    Marc
     
  13. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    Cannot comment this car car, but can you imagine how many GTO- and SWB-replicas have been offered for sale with a description like this? In reality most of them are quick chop-jobs performed on a bare GTE/330-frame plus a rebody that most of us can recognize as a a fake from a mile away... Best wishes, Kare
     
  14. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

    Nov 12, 2003
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    based on 3731GT. seen the car at the Moroso 2007. i would say (if that can be said of replicas) it is one of the better GTO replicas compared to others.
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    #1090 Marcel Massini, Nov 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are three photos showing the numbers today on that REPLICA. Chassis number (note crude welding), chassis tag (fake), engine number with internal engine number. Donor car war 3731 GT, originally a beautiful 250 GTE 2+2 Series II delivered new in Italy.
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  16. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

    Nov 12, 2003
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    #1091 michael platzer, Nov 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    and the number plate:
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  17. michael platzer

    michael platzer F1 Veteran

    Nov 12, 2003
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    #1092 michael platzer, Nov 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    these days a GTO replica based on 330 GT 2+2 S2 8383 was offered to a friend (sportscar dealer) for € 420.000,-- ! that must be a joke because the proportions of that car are really off. note the back. i would says it worth max. € 150.000,-- if anyone wants such a car.
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  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #1093 Marcel Massini, Nov 7, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And the REAL crazy thing is that the 330 GT 2+2 engine #8383 is currently in ANOTHER REPLICA, the yellow 250 "SWB Berlinetta" using S/N 1345 GT and available at last week's RM Auction in London.............what a mess!!! I just wonder what engine is currently in that red "GTO" REPLICA!
    See photo below of engine 8383 currently in 1345 GT (yellow SWB Berlinetta REPLICA).
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  19. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3

    May 8, 2008
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    Chanh Lê Huy
    IMHO, there needs to be at least a 3rd category.

    One famous example are the 4 "Sanction II" DB4 Zagato that were made in 1991 with the approval of Aston Martin. Are they to be classified as fakes or real?

    Also What about the 125S that was recreated by Michelotto for Ferrari in 1987 which can be seen at the Ferrari Galleria? Replica, or Fake?

    Best.
     
  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    The body of that 125 S was done by Cognolato in Padova, not by Michelotto. The first use was for the movie with the F40. They were in a hurry and therefore the recreation was initially fitted with an OPEL engine (for the movie).
    Marcel Massini
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    I wondered why it was so fast...
     
  22. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3

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    Thanks again for your clarification Marcel. Your knowledge never ceases to amaze me...
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Whatever you want to call them, I have very little personal respect for anything ranging from complete 100% non-original fakes to 330 2+2's and 250 PF's that were hacked to be a more desirable 250 TR. I think it is despicable anyone that would do this and while maybe not illegal in all cases, then those responsible should be shamed. That said in regards to FerrariChat.com you can talk about anything you want, no rules against talking about fakes, replicas, recreations, and such. I am OK with cars based on a real Ferrari vintage chassis or a real Ferrari vintage engine to be discussed in Vintage if the story is clear. In regards to fakes or even Norwood P4's that are an unoriginal chassis and a modern engine then that belongs in the Other Cars - General Discussion section.

    Yes these cars are expensive, if you can't afford a real one then go out and buy a model or just look at pics.

    Thanks,
    rob
     
  24. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Jack Verschuur
    Ron,

    Thanks for clarifying the rules, and I support your take on things, although I'd like to ask for a little space at the edges.

    Especially where fakes are concerned, sometimes the lines are, for obvious reasons, not quite clear cut; this is only naturally so, because it is the intention of the seller. The best chance to identify such a vehicle is here, where the knowledge is. We are not all at the level of some of the contributors to this forum, and some will be rather thankful for the advice given and knowledge willingly brought forward.

    As an example: the 512 bodyshell that was offered for sale and discussed; it was put forward as an original, and rather quickly de-masked as a Marauder effort. At that point it becomes just another heap of plastic, but you need to be in an environment where the knowledge resides to point out why this is so and for what reasons. In the end it was of course blatantly obvious, but these don't come along often enough for the mere mortals amongst us to not fall for the joke.

    Otherwise yes, please let us not get into look-alikes with Ford engines etc., there are plenty other places to discuss these.
     
  25. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    It's all about doing the homework. Continuous history with NO gaps and full documentation.
    Marcel Massini
     

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