Mondial t alternator - the story of something more?

Dead or shorted cell in your battery? I had a problem with alt getting hot and all sorts of un related problems with a battery with a dead cell.

my 2c.

Hack

 

What's going bad, the VR or diode bridge? Or a burned up coil wire?

Ken

 

The Mondial T, 348 and F355 have alternators that work in a very high heat environment at very near their heat-limit capacity.

And this is fine until you get your first dead battery. Once you jump start your car, your alternator then tries to work too hard recharging the near-dead battery. That makes it even hotter than normal, and that drasticallly limits your alternator's life.

Likewise, as your alternator is dying over time, it fails to fully recharge your battery...compounding your problem.

Change out the alternator and the old battery now has a "memory" that will cause your new alternator to work too hard...killing the new alternator over time.

So you can't jump start a Mondial T, 348, or 355 and expect your alternator to last.

Nor can you replace the alternator without replacing the old battery...unless you want this cycle of self-destruction to continue.

 

very common problem for 348 powertrain
i "solved" it by

1) rebuild alternator

2) buy new battery (important: most regular car batteries do not
like deep cycles to often)

3) trickle charger to avoid dead battery when car is parked
for a longer time (like a week)

 

There are many Technical Info Sheets and Service Bulletinis regarding the Mondial t and 348 alternators. The Delco 105a was superseded to a 105a Nippondenso, then superseded to a 140amp Nippondenso alternator. The vibrations caused failures to the Delco alternator and caused mounts/supports to break as well. Bottom line: You will need to buy an alternator update kit. I have the info at the office, but it will be in the $1500-1600 range depending on the kit. Also I recommend installing an additional ground strap between alternator and chassis. This was an update on 355 & 360's with alternator/charging issues.
I'm surprised Symbolic didn't mention it to you, but if this was awhile back, the English service manager they had (Roy) didn't know d**k about Ferrari's.

 

Ok so this is my recent experience. About three weeks ago my alt. light would go out after the car started but there was no charging of the battery. (Checked with a volt meter). Had the Delco unit rebuilt by a local shop for $120. Everything works great now and 14.5 volts output. There is a heat shield that mounts right above the alt. So probably what you should do is load test the battery and alt. The rebuild shop can probably tell what's part is failing and why.....more so than the mechanic. My local shop has found the aftermarket parts are better than Delco. You might also want to clamp a current probe on the output line to check if the max is too great. Let us know what you find out.

Jeff Pintler
89 348tb, 86Tr

 

Some more thoughts: the delco is a generic unit with different mounting tabs. If the failure is intermittant, the shop should be able to install a new/used stator or armature(field coil or rotatating thingy). Again, the rebuild shop should be able to track this down.

Jeff Pintler
89 348tb, 86TR

 

In addition to what has been said, add an extra ground strap to the alternator. Up the output to 140a with a heavy duty regulator. That way it doesn't have to work so hard to charge the battery, and the regulator can handle the extra amps. Check, double check, and tripple check all your connections. Electrical problems with these stinking cars are a PAIN!!!!!!

 

You can also buy the Declo alternator from NAPA. The NAPA part number is 13-4553. The Delco part number is 10479969. I think it cost some thing like $144 for a new one.

This next part I copied and pasted from F-Talk, it won't let me link it. It is a fantastic write up with awesome info by F-Talk chatter Chris Fricke

Here is more of what Chris wrote.

And some more with pics

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[FLAME SUIT /ON]

http://ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?cPath=13&products_id=261296


[FLAME SUIT /STAY ON]

(Just so y'all know, I am not really the devil. I have a nice little doggie, I eat Wheaties, and genuinely am a nice guy)

 

I'm happy to see people figure out alternator issues. There is NO REASON any regular production Ferrari alternator should cost four figures to replace or repair!! Anyone can rebuild their own with just a little patience to find the right parts; I did mine and it's a Delco unit as well. I bought a repair kit off eBay for $25: brushes, VR, diode bridge and bushings. Took a while to find the right kit however since it's a 35 year old British model, but they're out there. Your mileage may vary, so if you can find the generic parts you'll obviously save a bundle!

Ken

 

Good work Ernie. In addition Standard Motor Products, Transpo make good replacement internals. Bearings should be Timken, SKF, etc. Beware, there is alot of replacement junk coming in from China.

Most of the remanufactured stuff is garbage. They are farmed out to a low-bid factory; unskilled labor tear apart the cores; harsh abrasive are used to clean this jumbled stuff wrecking the machining and tolerances, cheap diodes, bearings, etc are used; then they are packed in new Bosch, AC Delco, Motorcraft boxes.

If you want rebuilt, find an independent shop. They are still around. Ask em' what internals they use. The places that do marine and truck alternators usually know what they are doing.

Weak or defective batteries put a big strain on alternators, so replace it. Most automotive charging system wiring is underspecced from the factory because they are cheap bastards. Add a few years of corrosion and you get the picture. The car stereo and offroad 4X4 gang usually redo all wiring from battery to alternator and main juctions(this includes grounds too).

 

What a great thread - very insightful.

 

I heard (one of the of NY fchat crew...?) that you have to be careful about replacement alternators in the high revving engines. Some of these units are not designed for engines that max at 7500-8500 rpm. This logic applies to other components as well.

 

we had a costumer that had 4 alternator failiures in a mondial, thae delco unit is a POS, he got tired of that and bought an upgrade kit with a nippon denso unit(similar to the one on the modena) and we installed it and NEVER had any more problems

 

If upgrading from Delco to a NipponDenso unit, do you also need to change the wiring loom ?

 

The link Daniel posted above shows the kit of parts for the conversion, including loom. I think $1000 is a good deal.

One of the reasons I held out for a 92-> car was the Nippon alternator. I have only been stuck at the side of the road twice in the last 10 years - both times Delco alternator failures.

 

Gentlemen, keep in mind there are three different "update" kits for the 348 & Mondial t. If you count all the different kit part numbers there are more like 10. The 348 have different kits depending on battery location (front battery or rear battery) cars. The Mondial has one just one kit, plus an update kit for the update kit (basically another alternator if your update kit let the smoke out of the new ND alternator.) Daniel's kit is the second version of the three update kits for the rear battery 348's. The basic difference between the kits is the shape of the connector on the chassis end of the wiring harness supplied in the kit. The rear battery cars have a round connector and the front battery cars use a square connector.
HTH.

 

I leave mine on the trickle charger. I find it starts to discharge even after sitting only a couple of days. My mechanic also advised to just leave it on to lengthen the life of the alternator (and of course the battery) and to eliminate some of those intermittent gremlins associated with the Mondial t.

 

does anyone know the Delco part number for the Mondial 8 alternator?