Post after post of you ripping Roland's car apart. I guess you can call it what you want and I'll can call it what I want. Fair enough. BTW i am not trying to create a fight between you and Roland. I am just calling it as I see it. So we now have something to disagree about.
I didn't mean to disturb the tread, but I posted the link to show as a comparsion to the factory cars. BTW when Roland displays his car it is discribes the car on a sign as a "1990 Ferrari (One off the 6 LM made after the 13 made by the factory)". But to keep in mind racecars aren't kept to all factory system and are altered in one way in another. I think the best way is to here what Roland has to say.
Ok I guess I work in an industry (investment banker) that everything has to be black and white, no grey area allowed, so to me calling it an LM is just not correct. I have never critised the car or the man, I just like F40Linder alot better, I think it shows more respect for what Roland has accomplished.
This is my point again. It CANNOT be one of 6 "LM"s made after the 13 factory cars because Michelloti did not build Roland's car... ONLY a Michelloti built car is an LM. Period. F40 Linder Modificato, that is ok by me....
It's interseting that everyone seems to be getting their respective knickers in a bunch over the issue. (no disrespect intended to anyone with my comment) Chris's point is both valid and important. Those who own a real F40LM GTE/GTC etc would be rightly pissed if someone with a modified road F40 tried passing theirs off as the real deal, but...... essentially that is all a LM/GTE/GTC etc really is, at the end of the day. Anyway, I'd best be off and post about something I actually know about!
Where am I ripping it? The fact are the facts. It is not built by Michelotti. Roland built this car and as I state it is probably nearly as fast as a true LM. The fact that this car is a Phoenix (I agree with you) is more interesting than calling it something it is not. If you call it an LM you are calling it a fake, if you call it a F40 Linder, you are showing the respect I have tried to get Roland to accept for years. Do a search on here, you will find Roland and I haveing this same discussion earlier this year... I lost, he still calls it an LM... I know your heart is in the right place, I am not knocking the car or Roland, but IMHO you are disrespecting the hard work Roland put into this car by not acknowledging that this car is a "one off"... and is not associated with a factory built LM.
Again, we have a different point of view. Your on that side of the fence and I am on this side of the fence. Also my grass is greener.
Yes greener and about 1 mile higher! Thanks for your comments! I think we both are friends of Roland's, and I am sure we would get along as well, just two different views! thanks, Chris
My hot rod roots are going to show here, but maybe this will help..... I guess that's why I have a Hot Rod F40 So ask yourself these questions...... Is a Superformce Cobra a Shelby Cobra? Or just a Cobra? Or neither? If a guy takes a '69 Camero and changes the grill and bolts on some Z-28 emblems, Does that make it a Z-28 Camero? If a guy bolt aluminum heads on a Big Block Chevy motor, Does that make it an L-88? If you have a 308 and turn the engine the right way and put on a body kit does that make it a GT0? If you change the hatch, front air dam and emblems on a Testarossa, does that make it a 512TR? Or do we go by the factory seriel numbers??? Hmm... You make the call..... I think it's a cool car whatever you call it!
I have an Enzo which I've done a few FXX type mods to. I tell my friends that it's an Enzo FXX. Acceptable to everyone?
1. neither 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. yes I am not going to piss off Rick and Roland in the same thread! You cannot change DNA, whatever the birth certificates says wins! Now, nothing wrong with taking that Camaro and putting all Z28 parts on it, it can be identical to a factory Z28, but it will never be an actual Z28. If you do not believe me, take it to Barret Jackson and see if the real deal or the "clone" gets the money. I have no problem with the clone... but I would not want a fake Rolex, a toupe (yes I have no hair) if I had a clone car I would not describe it as the "real" deal!
LOL... let's see if that helped with the mind set around here. But fake breasts ARE O.K.?? Right?? So I think we agree that Roland has a really cool F40 that looks a lot like an LM. Heck, I don't care what HE calls it. Ya got to be at least a little crazy to own an F40, let alone start changing stuff around on 'em So here's the BIG question..... Is a car like that worth more or less than a stock F40?? With the Mods you have done and the Mods I have done, are our cars worth more or less than stock????? Maybe that's the topic for a new thread.....
i don't mean to get off topic here, but i've love to see what you've done to the car, pictures maybe?. what kind of modifications have you done to it?
Goodness me, I cannot understand why this is even controversial! An F40 is either an LM or it is not! If someone rebuilds a trashed F50, and modifies it to his own specifications, can he then claim it to be a genuine F50 GT1? I do not think so! Something is either the real thing, or it is not. It's not brain surgery...
To the original poster, here is an interior shot of a genuine LM, owned by Gil Matthews (as has already been mentioned by Stephens): Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks for posting the picture of the real F40LM interior. Everyone should go back and compare it to the pictures of the Linder-modified F40. There is a big difference. Perhaps another comparison is useful for AC, though? There were 25 official Silhouette 512 BBLMs built by the factory. There is at least one "replica" that I know of (and at least one being built up from another street chassis right now). It was built up using a damaged street donor and BBLM parts, and it is even more "correct" looking than the Linder-modified F40. But, is it a BBLM? I can tell you, definitively, in the eyes of the factory, it is not. Now, that's not to say that the owner doesn't have a very authentic looking car. It's fast and has all the goodies. And, he owns a neat car. BUT, it's not a BBLM. It's a street car that was re-built using BBLM parts. The chassis will ALWAYS carry the original street serial number. Period. I don't know Roland, but I know he's popular in this community. As is his car. And, as an aside, I hope he is recovering nicely and will return soon. I also look forward to meeting him one day. But, and I say this with all due respect, by the same logic it is not an LM. Now, in the automobile community, there have always been deceptions. History abounds with examples of people who didn't do their homework and were sold a false bill of goods. If Roland were to offer to sell the car in an advertisement, how would he characterize it? And, shame on me if I didn't do my homework. The first thing I would learn from the serial number is that it's not one of the 20 original factory-built (or factory-sanctioned...while Michelotto may not be "the factory", they have always had a close working relationship with it, and the factory commissions them to build the cars. What would you say about the pre-acquisition AMG MB's?) F40LMs. It's just not. And, to attempt to pass it off as such is fraud and intentional misrepresentation in the context of a sale. It would most assuredly be correct to say that the car is a heavily modified street F40. But, that's as far as it goes. Please, don't perpetuate an untruth. CW
Well this is easy for me to answer. We copy the LM from the blue prints and did all what I liked from other race cars and didn't put what I didn't like. I had no concerns to be "original", the car was build for ME. I was on the track with LM# 19 ( who else can say that?) and could see what works and what didn't. Why having poor electronics when Bosch got the best around , same for the gauges, VDO is just reliable ! and I still wait for some one to take my car in the braking zone.. Go find a F40 with the FULL CHASSIS MODS, full roll cages, inboard jacks, custom Penske, over the frame sway bars, complete BPR LM racing body-except for the doors that I didn't keep since I wanted real windows-the so callLM turbo, what a joke/price, Garrett makes better, cheaper same for the waste gate.. The whole construction was in Forza #45.I never expected /planned the car to be a " show" car, just my way to go racing based on my years of experience(34). The interior was build to make my 6'3 at home,taking in consideration my broken neck and back, you saw the difference in the steering angle, seats locations... Like Rick, it's build for our enjoyement without regards to concorso... I sure enjoy the car all over this country and it looks that most people do too, so I'll call her the way I like it even if one day I have a Lexus in it ! The bottom line is that I own a unique clone to the LM and it's been DRIVEN from one coast to the other and even in Canada. If you don't like her, just don't look at her when she is invited to car shows, or on TV. Roland F40LM
Thank you, Roland. I agree with virtually everything you said. Except the bit about calling it an LM. It's your car, and if we don't like it, that's alright. Your car is well known, as is the history, and if someone were semi-knowledgeable, they'd know the story and the truth. But, IF you were at an event, and I was standing nearby when someone says, "Wow, look! That's an F40LM!", and IF I corrected them by saying, "that's not right. It's a street F40 that's been modified.", then what would you say? On the other hand, don't put a Lexus motor in it. What would you call it then? CW
Roland, Hey, everybody thinks your car is really nice and it is. And certainly it would be impossible not to like you! This was not an attack on you or your car, but when people start promoting your car as an LM I do not think it is wrong to correct them. As I stated in an earlier post, you told me early on in this project it was never your intent to build a 100% exact copy of an LM, you built your car for you. But, it is not correct to refer to it as an LM as there are only 13 LM cars (plus 7). You make it sound like you are being invited to car shows or doing TV spots because you promote your car as an LM and if you stop calling it an LM the invitations will stop. Well let me tell you, you are invited because people like you for who you are, they could care less if your car is an LM or not. Like you, my car has been in Forza, my F40 has been on SpeedTV twice now, you know what, I did not have to promote it as a LM for that to happen. You can call it what you want Roland, your car is just that, YOUR car and it is a tribute to your hard work, I will always think you are not taking the credit you deserve.
Thanks Chris and CW, I hate to say it, but I guess that the car is just simply hot and most people not in the F.world just like to see the car..I get invitation because the car is available, from the Porsche club( you were there) to the Vintage races, car shows,tracks events etc.. simply because it's a cool F car being raced..and staying in one piece..That's also the only F. car where the public is willing to put top $ to get a ride for charity. All that contributed the to demand. I'm just there for the ride. I never hide the car story and that rebuild made it even more "interesting". Resale isn't an issue but I got a few request to tell them when available because no one would do that type of intensif rebuild. You guys take care. Roland F40LM
I'm with Chris: what the DNA says, it is. I had this argument with some people on a subaru board a while back. Some guy was saying since he modded his wrx to be an STi, it was an STi. I contended it was a STi replica at most. Clones of babies aren't the orginal and the same applies to cars. Now can we all have a big group hug? Deep down, everybody wants one.
No one's questioning whether or not the car's cool. It is. They're questioning whether or not it's an LM. It isn't. Freedom of speech says call it what you like (except maybe in the eyes of the other guy's lawyer post resale). Though "Bad Mofo" seems a fairly irrefutable handle. Re: Rick's question on resale value of mods. Not sure, though maybe your musclecar analogy is a good one here, too. If so, might want to hang onto the original parts.
Yes, I wouldn't call it deception, but definitely misleading. Someone requests pictures of an LM car & Roland's is always the first to pop up, although for those that know better, know it is not an LM. So I think it is misleading unless you know a lot of Ferrari history. The average person wouldn't know the difference. So I think it is misleading to those that know a little bit, but not a lot.
You know what they say about 'a little bit of knowledge...' Roland's car is awesome, no doubt. The only point of difference here is that some people who aren't very knowledgeable think it is an LM. Hell, when I first got on this board, even I thought his car WAS one of the original LMs until I had a good look at it. What I don't get is that once people are informed of the situation, they still insist it's an LM (obviously I'm not talking about Roland here). That STi example that one of you guys has cited, is an excellent one: it's a replica, stupid! Likewise, 'LM' is NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN a generic term for race car. What the hell would give one cause to reach such a conclusion! No one is accusing Roland of intentionally misleading people, but I think there has been some misunderstanding that has not been helped by his ambiguious signature 'Roland F40LM'. It would be better for his and his car's legacy to be known as the Linder F40, or something similar. Why give Michelotti the credit for your hard work, Roland? Take the credit yourself!
