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  #21  
Old 11-28-2012, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tspringer View Post
Different strokes for different folks.

What I would really like to see is a full on - full tilt - for a championship and $$$ racing series that featured top drivers in 100% accurate fully prepared replicas and/or originals. GTO drivers can run replicas - E-Type drivers run racing prepped real ones and so on. But have all the cars be prepared to the basic standards of the day and allow some "development".

Why? Because watching and driving older cars is WAAAAAAYY more fun! I've drive very quick modern race-prepped Porsches and none of them were anywhere near as much fun nor as rewarding to drive as my old hotrod lightweight 911S track car.

I would rather watch the front of the pack guys pushing hard at Goodwood than any current F1 race. Its just more entertaining. The cars slide around, the drivers really work at it and you can see them working at it. Its better racing.

Massive Aero ruined racing.


Terry


PS - I agree the E-types are cheating
i agree with your post. i also agree that the e-types are just a bit more robust today than they were in the day. in the states, the donovan guys built some fast, fast cars!!!
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  #22  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by miurasv View Post
I hadn't seen a replica '64 GTO before.

http://www.oldracingcar.co.uk/produc...-gto-series-ii
Built by Terry Hall and on offer for £500 k
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  #23  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Enigma Racing View Post
Built by Terry Hall and on offer for £500 k
I heard from them that the car is not currently available as it's part of an estate and the lawyers are still sorting it out.
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  #24  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Napolis View Post
FIA papers in this case mean very little. At one time the FIA was issuing papers that sort of said that a car was built to "proper" specification but in no way said the car was an original example of what it was a replica of.

While some venues will let pure replica's race many won't and these cars are replica's and IMO cost more to build today then they can be sold for.
Thanks Jim

The car has MSA issued papers from 2008 which should confirm a period specification for the car but the accuracy will very much depend on who inspected the car. Unlikely Goodwood would not accept the car to run against originals but other UK organisers take a more relaxed view.

ORC are asking £300k for the car. What do you think it would cost to build ?
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by amenasce View Post
The S2 GTO looks very very nice. IT's too bad it's not really for sale.
Yours for £500k
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Enigma Racing View Post
Built by Terry Hall and on offer for £500 k
Even rarer than the original with only 3 made!!!!

"250 GTO '64 Recreation by Terry Hoyle.

Considered by many of the top drivers, collectors and motoring journalists as the greatest car ever built the iconic 250 GTO is arguably only bettered by the ultra rare GTO Series II cars that were launched in 1964. Of the thirty-six original GTO’s only seven were built with this stunning bodywork, styled by Pininfarina and fashioned by Scaglietti. One of these cars recently appeared on the cover of the April issue of Classic & Sportscar under the title ‘Perfection - The absolute pinnacle of motoring’. Weeks later this same car, chassis ‘4675 GT’ was bought by Chris Evans for a reputed $19m.


Against this background we are proud to offer an equally rare car: a 250 GTO Series II Recreation by Terry Hoyle which is, ironically, even rarer than the original, with only three known cars in the world. Perhaps even more significant this is also a recreation with significant provenance, having raced twice at the Goodwood Revival and once in the Targa Florio.
It has also been driven by such racing luminaries as Sir Stirling Moss, Willie Green, Roger Clark, David Piper, Jack Sears, and Peter Hardman, among others.


It already has FIVA papers (ensuring eligibility for a wide number of events) and could be eligible for FIA (HTP) papers. That said, its provenance and rarity ought to ensure invitations to historic events without further paperwork, as it has also participated in events in Cape Town, Phillip Island, Australia and various Ferrari Formula Classic races in the UK. Within the car’s history file is a full list of its competitive outings and placing.


The only 250 GTO Series II Recreation built by renowned specialist Terry Hoyle, work began in 1990 with 1962 250 GTE donor car. This was completely dismantled before being rebuilt over the next two years to 1964 250 GTO specification including uprating the engine to 250 GTO spec, fitting a new 5-speed 250 GTO gear box and making the necessary chassis adjustments. Meanwhile a new alloy body was created by leading coachbuilder Rod Jolley. Only the carburetors differ from the original, according to its FIVA papers.


The car is UK road registered and so can be used for a variety of rallies, tours, track and race events, or just enjoyed as a remarkable recreation of this rare and desirable GTO, being both a competitive track car as well as well-mannered road car.


This is the second time we have had the privilege to sell this car, but once sold it could be a very long time indeed before such an opportunity comes again. Not to be missed.


*£POA*"
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by amenasce View Post
I heard from them that the car is not currently available as it's part of an estate and the lawyers are still sorting it out.
I heard that too but told it will be available when sorted out. Apparently they sold it once already to the owner
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  #28  
Old 11-29-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by miurasv View Post
Even rarer than the original with only 3 made!!!!
*£POA*"[/b]
Looks the business !
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Enigma Racing View Post
I heard that too but told it will be available when sorted out. Apparently they sold it once already to the owner

When did you speak with them? I spoke with Roy in August. I wonder if the situation has changed.
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by swift53 View Post
Mr. A.N.? Never! He told me himself: "it is just as they raced them back then, only the sparkplugs are better....".

The only reason they pass the GTO's, is that they are being driven by girlies.

Regards, Alberto
Scrutineering is a problem at Goodwood and there is a lot of cheating. You only have to look at the lap times in the TT since the revival started to see this.

This year, five lightweight E Types and a Lister (Boring) came in before Alesi in a GTO with the winning XKE posting the fastest lap at 1:25.3.

Compare this with the 1964 TT when Bruce McLaren set the lap record of 1:23.8 WITHOUT a chicane !

Incidentally, Graham Hill won it in a 330-P with a best lap of 1:24.6. The quickest XKE came in 8th behind a 275LM, three Cobras, a GTO and a Lotus.....lap time..... 1:29.9
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  #31  
Old 11-29-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by amenasce View Post
When did you speak with them? I spoke with Roy in August. I wonder if the situation has changed.
Spoke this week. Told me he had it for sale but the owner died. Keeping it on the website while estate being sorted out

Kim
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Enigma Racing View Post
Thanks Jim

The car has MSA issued papers from 2008 which should confirm a period specification for the car but the accuracy will very much depend on who inspected the car. Unlikely Goodwood would not accept the car to run against originals but other UK organisers take a more relaxed view.

ORC are asking £300k for the car. What do you think it would cost to build ?
There are several for sale in the US and have been for a LONG time in some cases years asking 450K $ My guess is easily 500K $ to build "correctly".
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  #33  
Old 11-29-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Enigma Racing View Post
Scrutineering is a problem at Goodwood and there is a lot of cheating. You only have to look at the lap times in the TT since the revival started to see this.

This year, five lightweight E Types and a Lister (Boring) came in before Alesi in a GTO with the winning XKE posting the fastest lap at 1:25.3.

Compare this with the 1964 TT when Bruce McLaren set the lap record of 1:23.8 WITHOUT a chicane !

Incidentally, Graham Hill won it in a 330-P with a best lap of 1:24.6. The quickest XKE came in 8th behind a 275LM, three Cobras, a GTO and a Lotus.....lap time..... 1:29.9
Tires have advanced just a wee bit since then...
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  #34  
Old 11-30-2012, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post
Tires have advanced just a wee bit since then...
True but all the cars benefit from improved tires and that does not explain why the Lightweights are now thrashing everything !
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  #35  
Old 11-30-2012, 03:42 AM
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There WAS a chicane at Goodwood in '64............just that Bruce was driving a mid-engined lightweight Cooper-Olds which was about the quickest racing sportscar of anything around that year (hence laptime 0.8 sec quicker than Graham Hill in a 330P with full windscreen and lights and built to last 24 hours.).

Those over-developed E-types with huge wheels that have been in a F1 wind-tunnel are getting rather dull....

Paul
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  #36  
Old 11-30-2012, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
You cannot destroy a GTO or LM or many other rare Ferraris. All you can do is reduce it's value by putting a black mark in it's history.

Most GTO's and LM's have been bent many times, some have burnt to ground more than once but they are rebuilt and continue to be correctly referred to as genuine cars.

I would not enter any car in the Goodwood TT as I don't agree that these old cars should be flogged to death to win a pointless "historic" trophy. Brundle and Hales have the right attitude for historic racing and good on them.

BTW: I believe all those E-types are cheating anyway ...
Pete
Many are cheating, not only Jaguar.....
Watch Shell Historic challenge races........lots of cheating.
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:31 AM
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There WAS a chicane at Goodwood in '64............

Paul
You are correct !!

I always thought the reason that the circuit closed in 66 was because the cars were becoming too quick and March refused to put one in. The was always a kink after Woodcote but I thought the barriers were a later invention.

Clearly not for Jean Bira and his BRM.

I bet he wished it was polystyrene
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  #38  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:11 AM
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1952 Goodwood: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/br...-hour-car-race

1960 Goodwood TT: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/st...+moss+goodwood

1961 Goodwood TT: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/ac...+moss+goodwood

1962 Goodwood TT from about 0.45: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/sp...eland+goodwood

1963 Goodwood TT: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/gr...od+graham+hill

1964 Goodwood TT: http://www.britishpathe.com/video/hi...od+graham+hill

Last edited by miurasv; 11-30-2012 at 09:35 AM.
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  #39  
Old 11-30-2012, 09:56 AM
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Chicane at Goodwood

This website is great so thank you and shows the chicane clearly
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miurasv View Post
Even rarer than the original with only 3 made!!!!

"250 GTO '64 Recreation by Terry Hoyle."
3103 GT
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