1979 Porsche 930 (...and 78's too!)

[Rafienva]

Originally Posted by joe sackey

This gorgeous 1979 was available a while back from Ooley & Blackburn..

Looks like Casa Blanca Beige, sold one just like it in 79.. We were offered 3 extra 930's back then from the VOA Porsche rep (Volkswagen of America)if we took the remaining 14 924 Sebring Editions Guards Red left in port. We did. We took the stripes of the cars and sold them all.

[CharlesE]

Originally Posted by idart

Joe,

Since no one else has chimed in, I’ll take a shot. First and foremost, all 930s are cool.

I agree with your two distinct production variations; 3 non inter-cooled cars and 3.3 inter-cooled cars but I also believe it’s important to consider the changes in the 3.3 liter cars from 78-89. With the 78/79 cars, the floating rotor front brakes derived from the 917 and 935 make these cars truly unique.

As time goes by, perceptions change. This is true for anything that is collected; Rolex watches, Nikon cameras or Porsches. For example, the first 100 Nikon F camera’s in 1959 were equipped with cloth shutters. Until the 1990s (when these cameras started becoming collectible) they were unwanted since they didn’t have the latest features. I think the 3.0 liter and 78/79 930 cars are like the cloth-shuttered and early 1960’s Nikon F’s; the first of a breed that were not appreciated until recently. Remember that 930 buyer’s guides told us to: “buy the newest car you can afford.” The Oct 97, Excellence Magazine 911 Turbo price guide told us: “Many Porsche enthusiasts have convinced themselves that the 930 is a rare and collectible car, but the production volume makes this an impossibility. Over the years, more than 23,000 examples were manufactured in Stuttgart.” Only recently has this perception changed where the 930 is being embraced as a collectible car.

I don’t think the 79’s are more desirable than the 78’s (and vice-a-versa) but I find it interesting that so many subtle changes occurred during the U.S. ‘79 production run. I like the fact that my late ’79 came from the factory with flush mounted headlight washers, adjustable headlight bezels, updated A/C vents, 85 mph speedometer and a Nippondenso A/C compressor. Speaking of this, isn’t it about time that someone write a book on the 930 that truly tells us the history of these cars with all of the detailed production changes from 1975-1989?

Here’s a link to an image of my ’79 silver, light red/black interior parked by a derelict Atlas ICBM site. Its bone-stock except the 3 liter 180 mph speedometer (still have the 85mph for mileage verification).

Rich

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/p...lane/930-1.jpg

my 2 cents: when i ws looking for a 930, i was looking specifically for a 3.0. 1 wanted a 3.0 for 1.) waht it reperesents to the Porsche mark and Porsche racing...beign a homoligation special for the street to go racing, and 2.) i liked the simplicity of it over vs the 3.3. after looking for years for the right 3.0 ( let "the one" slip thru my hands) i came across the 79 i purchased. i liked the 79 second to the 3.0s, as it was the last year for the US hand built (welded flares) 930 and 917 brakes. i think at the end of the day (or my lifetime) the values of both will be about the same, but he 3.0s down the road may get a slight premium (similar to early 60s XKEs vs late 60s XKEs. while there are 3.0s trading hands privalety for 6 figures, 79s are also doing the same. i know someone who has a 79 specially built with a cool lineage, and there is now way he will sell it for under 6 figures....if sell it all.

[idart]

Originally Posted by CharlesE

i know someone who has a 79 specially built with a cool lineage, and there is now way he will sell it for under 6 figures....if sell it all.

Charles, what's the cool lineage? I posted an update about my car on the Reenlist "Last 50 Signature Edition thread" and someone mentioned that Al Holbert had some special cars delivered toward the end of '79 U.S. production run.

Here's an image of the certificate & dash plaque for my '79 930 (originally owned by the late Peter C. Cook, then owner of Import Motors, Grand Rapids, Michigan). When I purchased my car in 1989, it had all the documentation (window sticker, maintenance manual, radio manuals, etc.) but best of all, it came with the last 50 certificate signed by Ferry Porsche.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/p...-LastFifty.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/p...Fifty-1164.jpg

Rich

[idart]

’79 930 that sold for $30K in a March 2012 eBay auction. Amazing that it sold for $30K in this condition. It was not mentioned in the eBay description but this car was one of the last 50 imported to the U.S. (9309801172) but was missing the dash plaque and certificate. This car probably sold for a lot more than the $44K list price when it was delivered to the U.S. in early 1980.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=...257%26_rdc%3D1

Another ’79 930 that sold on the last detail website that was also one of the last 50 cars (also missing the dash plaque and certificate – VIN 9309801175). Looks original except for the 150mph speedometer that replaced the 85mph factory installed unit.

http://www.thelastdetail.com/galleri...make=SOLD+CARS

Some more images of the magnificent 78/79 930 cross drilled floating rotor brakes that were derived directly from the 917 and 935.

Rich

[idart]

Porsche went out of their way to highlight the upgraded brakes (front floating rotor) in their 1978 and 1979 U.S. brochures.

In the book, “Excellence was Expected”, Karl Lundvigsen discusses the 917 brakes that were originally destined but not delivered on the 3 liter cars: “Another component that was originally planned for the Type 930, but not used in its final form, was the laterally drilled brake disc. In fact the cross-drilled discs were shown and publicized at the car’s 1974 introduction, but were not actually fitted to the series-built Turbos. Instead the brake equipment was like that of the Carrera 2.7, with radially ventilated discs and calipers of aluminum on the front and cast iron in the rear.”

By 1980, Porsche was already planning to phase out this exotic brake and it’s interesting that a photo of 930 brakes do not appear in the German 1980 brochure. Also interesting that they used an early ’79 930 with snorkel headlight washers and the old style A/C vents in their brochure (light blue car below).

Rich

[CharlesE]

Originally Posted by idart

Charles, what's the cool lineage? I posted an update about my car on the Reenlist "Last 50 Signature Edition thread" and someone mentioned that Al Holbert had some special cars delivered toward the end of '79 U.S. production run.

Here's an image of the certificate & dash plaque for my '79 930 (originally owned by the late Peter C. Cook, then owner of Import Motors, Grand Rapids, Michigan). When I purchased my car in 1989, it had all the documentation (window sticker, maintenance manual, radio manuals, etc.) but best of all, it came with the last 50 certificate signed by Ferry Porsche.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/p...-LastFifty.jpg

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/p...Fifty-1164.jpg

Rich

I would rather not get into specifics on the car, but it was one off Porsche produced for the CEO of a company which had very close racing business ties to Porsche in the 60s tru the 70s. it comes out of hiding in my area.

my 79 #630 was purchased new at Holbert's dealership. It is mid in the run, and there is noting really unique except it is petrol blue which was a not too common color (another reason any i bought it). About 4-5 years ago, a guy in my area had the 79 that was personally owned by Holbert. Not sure of the serial #. if i recall it didn't have anything unique on it. he was selling it..asking $65k which was way top money for a 79 back then. nice 3.0 tubos and 78-79 3.3s were in going in low - upper 30s. it had ~20k miles and was an unusual beige/tan color. it was a pristine. not sure if he sold it, but i image today it would be approaching 6 figures, and probably would be over 6 figures if it were at one of the major Porsche collector car type dealers (Sloan, etc).

Speaking of Sloan, he has again the 78 ice green <1,000 miles car back for sale this time asking $150k. he had it last year asking $125k. it was sold and he now has it back FS again.
.

[idart]

Petrol blue is a very nice color. I took these photos of a '79 petrol blue car in Idaho right after I purchsed my silver 930 in 1989. This car was all original including the factory Fuchs wheels. When the Fuchs wheels are replaced on the 78/79 cars, the spacer on the front floating rotors is often discarded. This '79 was a pre-818 VIN car with the snorkel headlight washers.

Rich

[h2oskier]

Originally Posted by Michael B

I think I have shown off my 1978 previously. But what the heck - here it is again:

Edit, just encase you were not aware. the earlier 930's (like these pictured) had welded on flares from the factory. Whereas the later 911 turbos had one piece fenders with the flairs. Just another tid-bit that makes the early cars so very cool.

Beaut

A

Ful

[idart]

Here’s a link to a low mileage (18K) ’79 930 that sold some time ago for $77K. With a VIN of 9309800724, I believe this car had the snorkel headlight washers replaced with the flush units.

Rich

http://www.indigoclassiccars.com/web...hotos/2677596/

[CharlesE]

Originally Posted by idart

Petrol blue is a very nice color. I took these photos of a '79 petrol blue car in Idaho right after I purchsed my silver 930 in 1989. This car was all original including the factory Fuchs wheels. When the Fuchs wheels are replaced on the 78/79 cars, the spacer on the front floating rotors is often discarded. This '79 was a pre-818 VIN car with the snorkel headlight washers.

Rich

it is the exact twin to mine, even down to the cork interior.

[idart]

Here's another '79 petrol blue/cork that sold on Flemings Ultimate Garage a few years ago. Looked all original except for the wheels.

http://www.flemingsultimategarage.co...rbo-c-1099.htm

[idart]

This was a nice very early ’79 930 that sold in an Apr 12 ebay auction. The seller claimed: “This car is original and unmolested in every way” but I believe the chrome headlight bezels and H-4’s were added (vs. original factory option) and the Fuchs wheels were polished (seller claimed as a rare upgrade at the time). I have not been able to locate a factory option for polished Fuchs for a ’79 930.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-...item256f2129e0

[idart]

Paperwork that came with my ’79 930 (service receipts not shown)

- Last 50 930 certificate in velvet lined burgundy cover with Porsche badge on cover
- Window sticker
- Last 50 press release
- 85mph speedometer (in original 76, 180mph, 3 liter turbo speedometer box)
- Burgundy glove box owner/maintenance manual cover
- Blaupunkt Autoradio Porsche CR Stereo Typ US radio schematics (2)
- Owners manual
- Warranty and maintenance manual
- Hirschmann antenna manual
- Blaupunkt warranty card
- Blaupunkt Porsche CR Stereo Type US Manual
- Blaupunkt Autoradio Service booklet

[gumbajv]

I remember looking at one of the last 50 '79 turbos at a S.F. Bay Area dealership. It was new, black/black and the asking price was $49K. Not sure what options it had.

[idart]

Here’s a link to 9309800817 that was the last U.S. VIN for the 1979 model year (to August 1979) prior to 1980 model year (continue 1979 series, flush headlight washers, etc.).

http://usedcarsit.com/used-cars-for-...41/Porsche-911

Unfortunate that the car has extreme mods so little is left for historical reference. Of all the 930 years, the ’79 is probably the year with the most modified cars.

[idart]

Originally Posted by gumbajv

I remember looking at one of the last 50 '79 turbos at a S.F. Bay Area dealership. It was new, black/black and the asking price was $49K. Not sure what options it had.

Here’s an article from the Feb 15, 1980, Modesto Bee:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=1782,6317877

The article may reference the 930 you saw in San Francisco: "They're asking $100,000 for them down south," said Joe Travale, owner of Travale Porsche/Audi in Stockton. "A dealer in San Francisco turned down $100,00 for theirs."

[CharlesE]

Originally Posted by idart

Here’s a link to 9309800817 that was the last U.S. VIN for the 1979 model year (to August 1979) prior to 1980 model year (continue 1979 series, flush headlight washers, etc.).

http://usedcarsit.com/used-cars-for-...41/Porsche-911

Unfortunate that the car has extreme mods so little is left for historical reference. Of all the 930 years, the ’79 is probably the year with the most modified cars.

that one has ben FS in Atlanta for a while..i think it is at at Ford dealership. i sent hem an e-mail inquiring if it was stock to se what they would say. that was a mistake. they didn't really tell me anything about the car but now i'm i get e-mails for everything under the sun from them.

[idart]

In 1986, R&T tested the new U.S. 3.3 liter car. The 0-60 acceleration time was the same as the 78 & 79 930 but the 86 had a slightly quicker quarter mile time. The article discusses the very different character of the 78 car compared to the 86:

“At the test track, we discovered that the 911 Turbo will still give any car a run for its money, hustling to 60 mph from rest in 5.0 seconds. The time is the same for the 1978 Turbo, but the manner of getting to speed is noticeably different: Gone is the slow movement off the line that was followed by the punch-in-the-back turbo effect. The 1986 car moves off smartly and the speed just continues to build-quickly-with an only slightly detectable boost from the turbo. The means are different, the end is the same.”

[joe sackey]

Originally Posted by idart

In 1986, R&T tested the new U.S. 3.3 liter car. The 0-60 acceleration time was the same as the 78 & 79 930 but the 86 had a slightly quicker quarter mile time. The article discusses the very different character of the 78 car compared to the 86:

“At the test track, we discovered that the 911 Turbo will still give any car a run for its money, hustling to 60 mph from rest in 5.0 seconds. The time is the same for the 1978 Turbo, but the manner of getting to speed is noticeably different: Gone is the slow movement off the line that was followed by the punch-in-the-back turbo effect. The 1986 car moves off smartly and the speed just continues to build-quickly-with an only slightly detectable boost from the turbo. The means are different, the end is the same.”

You are doing a terrific job with the review of the period material you are providing for the 3.3 cars. Long overdue and well done!

[idart]

Thanks Joe,

More on character of the 78 (and 79) 930 in the April 1978, Car and Driver, Porsche Supertest: 928 and Turbo:

“Not much happens for the first 3000 RPM or so when you plant your foot in the Porsche. but when the cam timing and turbo come to life above 3500 RPM it’s as if you’ve stepped off the top of a very tall building. First experiences are always the ones you savor most, and mine came on an on ramp of the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway about 45 seconds after I fired up the car for the first time. The Turbo went from a slow roll to 75 mph in one quick and effortless whoosh that pinned me in the seat. It was then that I found out how good the brakes were as I melded into a thick glut of 35-mph traffic. It’s the all-time fantasy car for Anyman, but it’s flat too expensive and too fast for my tastes. Anything over first gear is tickets.”

“I see in the Turbo the same sinister functionality as a NATO jet fighter. The black nose cone, under-wing missiles, the pods, tanks, slots and spoilers all have a parallel in the Porsche. As cars go, the Turbo is not something that most stylists would want in their portfolios. Its line are born of necessity rather than of fashion. The look is unfriendly, like a Phantom. The Turbo drives so much like it looks that it makes my blood run cold. The thrust of the engine is fierce. Control response—steering, brakes, windshield washers, you name it—is instantaneous. Still, there is some question in my mind as to whether this sort of First Strike Capability should be available to anyone with a driver’s license. The military is careful about who flies its jest. Perhaps Porsche, in its own way, is qualifying applicants for the Turbo. After all, they have to write a check for $34,000.