ALMS Split

[CornersWell]

I have no qualms about disclosing it. First, though, it depends on what you're counting.

You have to have the basic infrastructure in place such as a shop facility, rig & trailer and all the hot pit set-up goodies (refueling rig, air guns, war wagon, etc). So, I'm not counting those. Nor am I counting the car and spares package.

With those disclaimers, to run the entire series credibly, we figured a minimum of $2MM per season. Probably considerably more to take it up to the level of the factory-backed efforts. This doesn't include any wind-tunnel development time, either. I'm just talking support for the car(s) which includes transport for the team and cars back and forth, the post-race tear-downs, the engine and gearbox rebuilds, fuel, tire and other disposables, pro-driver compensation (if that's how you roll), testing and practice dates. And, of course, that's just the ALMS calendar (9 events). If you are planning on crossing the pond and doing Le Mans, add more in.

Again, this is merely to put a credible GT class entry on the grid. To compete on a par with the factory-backed efforts or in a higher class (LMP1 or 2), the prices only go up from there. My numbers are pretty dated, though, as the last time we seriously looked at this was a while ago.

Napolis probably has more current numbers on this. And, there might be a few other folks who can chime in on this with more current information.

CW

[Caplax40]

So factor in the car and the other things you didn't count, would $1 Million cover that? Guess it depends what car you run...

Reason I am asking is that I am interested in the economics/business side of racing. Thanks for being willing to discuss. There doesn't seem much (if any) solid information avilable to guys like me who are not "in" the racing field.

[Rob Lay]

Originally Posted by Caplax40

economics/business

there is business in pro racing!?! I wonder if even the popular arrive and drive "pro" teams break even?

[Fast_ian]

Originally Posted by Rob Lay

there is business in pro racing!?!

I wonder if even the popular arrive and drive "pro" teams break even?

Very good question. I have no idea btw, but suspect at least the "front runners" do. Which begs the question, are there any front running arrive & drive teams though?

Surely not many of 'em are in that business out of love for the sport however?

I think I'd also throw in ~$100K for a good simulator if not already an "incidental".

Cheers,
Ian

[Caplax40]

Originally Posted by Rob Lay

there is business in pro racing!?! I wonder if even the popular arrive and drive "pro" teams break even?

Only Level 5 / Scott Tucker. Then you make meeeeellions!


And of course bring a lot to the sport.

[Rob Lay]

Originally Posted by Caplax40

Only Level 5 / Scott Tucker. Then you make meeeeellions!

And of course bring a lot to the sport.

I much profit does he make a year off racing?

[CornersWell]

I'd default to the old adage...

To make a small fortune out of racing, start with a big one.

CW

[Caplax40]

Originally Posted by Rob Lay

I much profit does he make a year off racing?

Now by "racing" do you mean "providing financial services"?

[Rob Lay]

Originally Posted by Caplax40

Now by "racing" do you mean "providing financial services"?

I don't think so, I mean sponsor money + winnings > expenses.

[Caplax40]

Originally Posted by Rob Lay

I don't think so, I mean sponsor money + winnings > expenses.

$1, Bob.

[Rob Lay]

Originally Posted by Caplax40

$1, Bob.

I doubt it. Especially considering not much sponsor money that isn't Tuckers and even that sponsor money I think is a private equity firm that is just his own. What is he advertising with the business?

[Mike Hedlund]

I don't know what it'd cost to run a ALMS GT car for a season, but it'll run you about $1M for arrive & drive the season in a competitive ALMS GTC class car.

-mike

[cgomez]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

I wish they'd just allow FIA GT3 spec cars to run in GTC (minus TCS/ABS). Leave GT to the factory/Le Mans/GT2 teams and cars. Talk about field size.....

-mike

Why a different set of rules on this side of the pond? Why not just keep it simple and run GT3 and GT4 cars?

The market for used GT3 and GT$ race cars is pretty deep, but we have to build for our own set of rules here in the US? that's pointless...

GT racing is already a pretty tough proposition cost wise, why make it more expensive creating separate standards: GrandAm and ALMS vs. already well proven and documented FiA GTx specs.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by cgomez

Why a different set of rules on this side of the pond? Why not just keep it simple and run GT3 and GT4 cars?

The market for used GT3 and GT$ race cars is pretty deep, but we have to build for our own set of rules here in the US? that's pointless...

GT racing is already a pretty tough proposition cost wise, why make it more expensive creating separate standards: GrandAm and ALMS vs. already well proven and documented FiA GTx specs.

Far as I can tell ACO / Le Mans (and thus ALMS) have a set of rules that gives us GT2 class cars. It seems the rest of the GT series in europe are following the GT3 specs for their GT cars. And of course, Rolex seems to be slowly allowing GT3 spec cars (with tweaks) to enter (Audi R8, 458).

ALMS is either going to have to permit GT3 spec cars from EU into GTC (and then the Porsche Cup's won't be competitive, so they'll go away) or they're going to have to create a GTE-Am class. Otherwise they'll die, especially with the lack of quality TV coverage.

But what do I know, I just do this racing thing for fun.... :-)

-mike

[cgomez]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Far as I can tell ACO / Le Mans (and thus ALMS) have a set of rules that gives us GT2 class cars. It seems the rest of the GT series in europe are following the GT3 specs for their GT cars. And of course, Rolex seems to be slowly allowing GT3 spec cars (with tweaks) to enter (Audi R8, 458).

ALMS is either going to have to permit GT3 spec cars from EU into GTC (and then the Porsche Cup's won't be competitive, so they'll go away) or they're going to have to create a GTE-Am class. Otherwise they'll die, especially with the lack of quality TV coverage.

But what do I know, I just do this racing thing for fun.... :-)

-mike

I've heard from IMSA that GTE-AM is almost a given for next year. Same driver classification rules as in Europe, and you can only use prior year GTE cars (lower cost and assure AM is slower than Pro).
I hope GrandAm becomes defacto GT3 without downgrading the cars that creates an unnecessary hassle of figuring out completely the car setup for the GrandAM specs (like audi had to do this year after having a perfectly good GT3 car in Europe). That will also make cars like the Porsche Cups much better to drive in GT3 spec (paddle shifters, etc.)