EVO Magazine F12 vs 599 GTO

[of2worlds]

Originally Posted by Noblesse Oblige

Interesting. Do you have any additional information or sources one can go to?

Amedeo Felisa seems to enjoy the journalists from the British car magazines and they quote him regularly. Some journalists have known him for two decades as he rose through the executive ranks at Ferrari. The details I mentioned were reported by them in 2006 for the 599 intro and again in 2009 for the intro of the Italia.
LdM talked about the Italia in The Official Ferrari Magazine and elsewhere to the journalists when it was introduced. Most car companies have their own styling people. Ferrari is just joining the modern ranks taking the styling 'in house'. This change also works for security which is also a concern with Ferrari controlling information very tightly. In a number of cases the company supplies the print images it wants journalists to use for new models.
It was UK magazine Autocar that gained exclusive access when Ferrari previewed the Enzo design process to them. This included the various factory employee's who were involved with the new model from engineers to F1 drivers.
CH

[Noblesse Oblige]

Originally Posted by of2worlds

Amedeo Felisa seems to enjoy the journalists from the British car magazines and they quote him regularly. Some journalists have known him for two decades as he rose through the executive ranks at Ferrari. The details I mentioned were reported by them in 2006 for the 599 intro and again in 2009 for the intro of the Italia.
LdM talked about the Italia in The Official Ferrari Magazine and elsewhere to the journalists when it was introduced. Most car companies have their own styling people. Ferrari is just joining the modern ranks taking the styling 'in house'. This change also works for security which is also a concern with Ferrari controlling information very tightly. In a number of cases the company supplies the print images it wants journalists to use for new models.
It was UK magazine Autocar that gained exclusive access when Ferrari previewed the Enzo design process to them. This included the various factory employee's who were involved with the new model from engineers to F1 drivers.
CH

Thanks. Very informative.

[nads]

Originally Posted by of2worlds

What changes pushed Ferrari to build a GTO version of the 599?
CH

Technology developed from the XX programme. And just to be clear it is not a GTO version of the 599 GTB, its a GTO version of the 599XX, a major and important distinction.

[ChalStrad]

Originally Posted by of2worlds

How the 599 GTO came to exist is a curious question.
Back in 2006 Amedeo Felisa was the General Manager of Ferrari. With the success of the Stradale two years earlier Ferrari was going in a different direction with a new V12 - the 599 GTB Fiorano. Did a 'Stradale' version of the the 599 fit into future marketing plans, was a question from journalists. Amedeo Felisa pronounced that Ferrari was happy with the level of performance offered by the new 599 GTB. He stated there were no plans for a performance version. Now this could just be PR talk but these comments came from the new General Manager whose background was engineering and who years ago had headed up the 550 development program for the top performing front engine V12 model at that time. It would be hard to find a stronger backer of front engine V12 performance models in the company.
What changes pushed Ferrari to build a GTO version of the 599? It should be noted that the 458 which some criticized as being too heavy has actually been engineered from the beginning to accept a horsepower 'upgrade' half way through it's production life. Did the old one year only Stradale continue to exert an influence on future Ferrari model decisions?
CH

The Stradale was actually a "necessary" development (homologation) as it was needed to allow Michelotto to develop the 360 GTC, last development of the World Championship winning 360 NGT
Felisa listened to Daniel Marin, the then importer for Ferrari in France, and added the CCM brakes from the Enzo and specific P Zero Corsa tyres (that were initially a disaster!!)

So the Stradale has its origins in a racing car (many parts, notably suspension, come from the racing car)

The GTO is a road going version of the XX, itself a racing car that is not limited by regulation. Here again the GTO incorporates many elements from the XX directly - notably, in the front end a including tyres, gearbox, exhaust system and certain engine management parts.

An XX Evo remains today quicker than an FXX Evo around Fiorano, so technology does improve the breed!

[of2worlds]

Originally Posted by ChalStrad

The Stradale was actually a "necessary" development (homologation) as it was needed to allow Michelotto to develop the 360 GTC, last development of the World Championship winning 360 NGT
Felisa listened to Daniel Marin, the then importer for Ferrari in France, and added the CCM brakes from the Enzo and specific P Zero Corsa tyres (that were initially a disaster!!)

So the Stradale has its origins in a racing car (many parts, notably suspension, come from the racing car)

The GTO is a road going version of the XX, itself a racing car that is not limited by regulation. Here again the GTO incorporates many elements from the XX directly - notably, in the front end a including tyres, gearbox, exhaust system and certain engine management parts.

An XX Evo remains today quicker than an FXX Evo around Fiorano, so technology does improve the breed!

Thank you for the details on what motivated Ferrari to build the Stradale and the highly favoured GTO!
It says something about the buying power of Ferrari clients today. The factory will build race cars for them even though they are not used in a competitive event but rather just among themselves. A variation on the 'One Make Series' idea yet it gives feedback to the factory for on track confirmation of engineering decisions. A form of these special performance features then trickle down to a road registered version GTO.
Point well taken as to where the street version GTO evolved from then.
CH

[Tenney]

Originally Posted by nads

The chances of their being an actual F12 GTO, however, is slim.

So to answer the question simply, the 'hardcore' F12 will be better than the 599 GTO in just the same way the 599 GTO is better than any other Ferrari to come before it.

Though if Ferrari does not call the 'hardcore' F12 a GTO, and it is indeed more accomplished at the same mission than the 599 GTO (sport-focused front 12 street coupe) ...

[bobzdar]

Originally Posted by nads

Technology developed from the XX programme. And just to be clear it is not a GTO version of the 599 GTB, its a GTO version of the 599XX, a major and important distinction.

That doesn't make any sense.

[nads]

Originally Posted by bobzdar

That doesn't make any sense.

What doesn't make sense?

[elipinski]

Originally Posted by nads

What doesn't make sense?

nads, dont bother, One Must at least experience (Drive) The car to understand what it is all about. regards- e

[speed racer]

Originally Posted by Tenney

Though if Ferrari does not call the 'hardcore' F12 a GTO, and it is indeed more accomplished at the same mission than the 599 GTO (sport-focused front 12 street coupe) ...

That indeeed may be the case.........But that will not make it a GTO.

[speed racer]

Originally Posted by elipinski

nads, dont bother, One Must at least experience (Drive) The car to understand what it is all about. regards- e

There are always going to be people. That no matter what the facts are and how clearly they are spelled out and presented will refuse to accept it. Even from those of us with the proper knowledge,experience, and credentials to back them up. You can neither reason with them or pursuade them with logic. in the end, you can either ignore them or simply refuse to be baited by them. This is a public forum and there is no hiding from them.

[AndrewDinCH]

Originally Posted by speed racer

There are always going to be people. That no matter what the facts are and how clearly they are spelled out and presented will refuse to accept it. Even from those of us with the proper knowledge,experience, and credentials to back them up. You can neither reason with them or pursuade them with logic. in the end, you can either ignore them or simply refuse to be baited by them. This is a public forum and there is no hiding from them.

+1

Bored with it now. If some don't get it, who cares?

[bobzdar]

Originally Posted by nads

What doesn't make sense?

That it's a GTO version of the 599XX and not the GTB.

[ARTNNYC]

Originally Posted by of2worlds

Thank you for the details on what motivated Ferrari to build the Stradale and the highly favoured GTO!
It says something about the buying power of Ferrari clients today. The factory will build race cars for them even though they are not used in a competitive event but rather just among themselves. A variation on the 'One Make Series' idea yet it gives feedback to the factory for on track confirmation of engineering decisions. A form of these special performance features then trickle down to a road registered version GTO.
Point well taken as to where the street version GTO evolved from then.
CH

Problem with all this is that the 599 NEVER raced as its design and engineeering was determined to be uncompetitive where as the 360 had a very successful racing career

[nads]

Originally Posted by bobzdar

That it's a GTO version of the 599XX and not the GTB.

I suggest you do some research then.....

[nads]

Originally Posted by ARTNNYC

Problem with all this is that the 599 NEVER raced as its design and engineeering was determined to be uncompetitive where as the 360 had a very successful racing career

It's not a problem if you've driven one....

[ARTNNYC]

Originally Posted by nads

It's not a problem if you've driven one....

driven a 599 GTB and a GTO....Didnt like either...Much prefer my Stradale

[GreenLantern]

Brilliant. Thanks for posting!

[Noblesse Oblige]

Have we exhausted this subject yet?

[M-individual]

Originally Posted by speed racer

There are always going to be people. That no matter what the facts are and how clearly they are spelled out and presented will refuse to accept it. Even from those of us with the proper knowledge,experience, and credentials to back them up. You can neither reason with them or pursuade them with logic. in the end, you can either ignore them or simply refuse to be baited by them. This is a public forum and there is no hiding from them.

+2.

The 599 GTO is an incredible car. They who need to know, know it and enjoy every minute and mile in it. That's all that matters.

I've been separated from it for more than a week now and I can't wait to get back home and take it for a spin

As to Peter's remark: The 599 GTO being a modern F40: I have asked a dear friend of mine who owns both cars as well and he tends to agree. Feel free to chime in if need by Skydancer ...