EVO Magazine F12 vs 599 GTO

[pcht5]

I cannot say that I love the front end of the car but Itoatlly agree that the rear glass hatch looks terrible.

[nads]

Originally Posted by AndrewDinCH

You cannot compare, there is simply no point. I am just happy that both exist

Precisely......

Unfortunately some people do continue to compare old with new (insisting new is always better) instead of enjoying a particular car for what it is and what it represented for the time. The 599 GTO will go down as being a great car for its time, as did the 288 GTO, 250 GTO, Enzo, F40 etc etc. Its only when you add the dimension of 'time period' do any of these cars make sense in 'todays world'.

[miurasv]

The F12 is about £70,000 GBP cheaper than the 599 GTO was which should also be taken into consideration. Both fabulous cars.

[speed racer]

Originally Posted by miurasv

The F12 is about £70,000 GBP cheaper than the 599 GTO was which should also be taken into consideration. Both fabulous cars.

There is a major difference between cheap and value. Ferarri is going to build 6/8,000 F12's before the end of production. There are only 599 GTO's and they are ......G T O's. I think i got the better value even if I paid a little more........and there is no modern Ferarri that can give you the same driving experience.... Don,t take my word for it.. Ask EVO.

[[gTr]]

Originally Posted by cesman

I think the car is a huge disappointment. It's looks are very questionable in the flesh.

I've got to a point where the new cars are starting to look boring - the older models (which also appreciate) are starting to look far more interesting.

I think the new models are looking boring because they all look the same from the front. The FF and F12 have very similar styling cues and the gauge cluster as well as the area in-front of the driver in the F12 is very similar to that of the 458. I for one am a fan of Ferrari's approach in the latter half of 1990's and 2000's when each model line was starkly different from (with no shared designing cues, both interior and exterior) from every other model line.

[Noblesse Oblige]

Originally Posted by of2worlds

Ferrari should simply be applauded for constantly producing newer model choices that offer improved performance. Quite an accomplishment when they have been designed with ever greater restrictions placed on the manufacturer by governments.
CH

+1 three times.

of2worlds knows of what he speaks.

Those government restrictions and regulations are getting tighter and are playing a large part in driving up costs. One of my concerns, as a 458 and F430 owner, is that eventually Ferrari will need to go to smaller turbocharged engines to achieve some kind of efficiency target. This could spell the end of the normally aspirated, instantly responding 9,000 RPM Ferrari engine which is the heart and soul of these cars. (Yes I know that the 288GTO and F40 were turbocharged)

[carcommander]

Originally Posted by Noblesse Oblige

+1 three times.

of2worlds knows of what he speaks.

Those government restrictions and regulations are getting tighter and are playing a large part in driving up costs. One of my concerns, as a 458 and F430 owner, is that eventually Ferrari will need to go to smaller turbocharged engines to achieve some kind of efficiency target. This could spell the end of the normally aspirated, instantly responding 9,000 RPM Ferrari engine which is the heart and soul of these cars. (Yes I know that the 288GTO and F40 were turbocharged)

Just curious, why do you own a 458 and a 430? I get because you can. :-)

[speed racer]

Originally Posted by speed racer

There is a major difference between cheap and value. Ferarri is going to build 6/8,000 F12's before the end of production. There are only 599 GTO's and they are ......G T O's. I think i got the better value even if I paid a little more........and there is no modern Ferarri that can give you the same driving experience.... Don,t take my word for it.. Ask EVO.

Sorry for my error in the misspelling of Ferrari in my prior post.....Serves me right for trying to type,answer my cell and flip pancakes for the family at breakfast at the same time.

[MalibuGuy]

Originally Posted by nads

Firstly who says there will be a F12 'GTO'? But even if there were to be I pose this question to you:-

Is the 599 GTO better than the 288 GTO and in turn is that better than the 250 GTO? Depending on which benchmark you wish to measure by, I think you will have your answer......

I'll wager that there will be some sort of special F12 like a GTO version simply because of what Ferrari has been doing toward the end of a model run. We will know the answer in about 4 years.

The comparison you make between the 599GTO and 288GTO is a little uneven. One is a 12 front engined and the other an 8 turbo mid-rear engine. The 250GTO is a 50 yo car from a completely different era of which only 30 cars (?) are still in existence each costing over 25M. So your question is confusing to me.

The question that someone else posed had to do with comparing front engined 12 cylinder models the 599, 599GTO and F12.

[nads]

Originally Posted by MalibuGuy

I'll wager that there will be some sort of special F12 like a GTO version simply because of what Ferrari has been doing toward the end of a model run. We will know the answer in about 4 years.

The comparison you make between the 599GTO and 288GTO is a little uneven. One is a 12 front engined and the other an 8 turbo mid-rear engine. The 250GTO is a 50 yo car from a completely different era of which only 30 cars (?) are still in existence each costing over 25M. So your question is confusing to me.

The question that someone else posed had to do with comparing front engined 12 cylinder models the 599, 599GTO and F12.

The term mentioned was F12 GTO. So if by 'GTO' you mean a hardcore version then yes I agree. The reason I compared it to the other two is that they are the only cars in Ferrari's illustrious history to carry the 'GTO' badge. And you are absolutely correct in saying the comparison is uneven, in fact it is pointless except for the fact that they represented the pinnacle of performance for their time and were the best the comapny could produce given the technology available. The chances of their being an actual F12 GTO, however, is slim.

So to answer the question simply, the 'hardcore' F12 will be better than the 599 GTO in just the same way the 599 GTO is better than any other Ferrari to come before it.

[Noblesse Oblige]

Originally Posted by carcommander

Just curious, why do you own a 458 and a 430? I get because you can. :-)

Actually my wife has the 430; manual shift which she loves. Completely different kind of car than the 458. Both are great expressions of the sports car.

[Ferrari 360 CS]

Originally Posted by speed racer

There is a major difference between cheap and value. Ferarri is going to build 6/8,000 F12's before the end of production. There are only 599 GTO's and they are ......G T O's. I think i got the better value even if I paid a little more........and there is no modern Ferarri that can give you the same driving experience.... Don,t take my word for it.. Ask EVO.

Good post! The point really is the GTO is a limited production car, it gives a feeling quite unlike any other Ferrari, an F40 owner I know drove a GTO hard over one of our local mountain passes and compared the two car very favourably.

The F12 is luxurious, climb into the GTO, look at the bare floor, feel the seat hold you in place, flip the two carbon paddles and wake the beast up front and the sound is shattering, it send shiver down my spine, I doubt the F12 as good as most likely is will do that.

I have said many times and will continue to say, the GTO is more than a collection of numbers its how everything comes together to create an experience, the sound, the acceleration, the feeling of lightness and yes that extreme feeling the car gives. Thats what the GTO was designed to do, the F12 was designed to be a spectacularly fast GT car.

As an aside I know a GTO owner who has done about 16 000 kms so far, including a few 1000 kms cross county trips, he says car performs superbly at this role. He has also taken me around the track in it....mostly sideways

[15hn]

I have a question for the GTO owners. If the car didnt have the GTO badge would you say it would reach the iconic status you believe it to be in (288, F40, F50 etc) or is it really just a spiritual successor to the stradale? It would seem both the stradale and the 599gto have a very similar cult following although I would say the stradale was a much better looking product of the 360 than the gto is to the 599.

[butcher]

I'd like to see an F12 vs Aventador comprehensive comparison.

[nads]

Originally Posted by 15hn

I have a question for the GTO owners. If the car didnt have the GTO badge would you say it would reach the iconic status you believe it to be in (288, F40, F50 etc) or is it really just a spiritual successor to the stradale? It would seem both the stradale and the 599gto have a very similar cult following although I would say the stradale was a much better looking product of the 360 than the gto is to the 599.

Interesting question. I would like to think yes. Let me reverse it on you........would the 288, F40, F50 etc have their iconic status if they were called something else and didn't have the hype of the Ferrari marketing machine making them the limited run desirable cars that they are today?

As far as looks are concerned I am a firm believer that beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder.

[Noblesse Oblige]

Originally Posted by 15hn

I have a question for the GTO owners. If the car didnt have the GTO badge would you say it would reach the iconic status you believe it to be in (288, F40, F50 etc) or is it really just a spiritual successor to the stradale? It would seem both the stradale and the 599gto have a very similar cult following although I would say the stradale was a much better looking product of the 360 than the gto is to the 599.

My answer, though I am not a GTO owner, is that the 599GTO will not reach the iconic status of the 288, F40, F50, and of course the Enzo. Having said that my guess is that it will continue to be held in high regard because it is very capable and its numbers were so limited. Its label will also help sustain its financial value.

These are subtle differences we are talking about, but they are perceivable.

[ChalStrad]

Originally Posted by 15hn

I have a question for the GTO owners. If the car didnt have the GTO badge would you say it would reach the iconic status you believe it to be in (288, F40, F50 etc) or is it really just a spiritual successor to the stradale? It would seem both the stradale and the 599gto have a very similar cult following although I would say the stradale was a much better looking product of the 360 than the gto is to the 599.

Interesting question!

I have a Challenge Stradale and for me it is an icon.

I had a Scuderia, sold it after 700 kms as - for me - it was a marketing ploy and lacked what the CS delivered

I also have an F40

Originally, I cancelled my GTO order as I was "sure" that it was a 599 in Scuderia "clothing", then I drove one and .... Whoops, I was wrong! The GTO is an icon because it is a road going XX, that remains the most extreme front engined Ferrari (believe me, I know).

An F40 is no longer the fastest car out there, but it is the original (and some say only) super car. The GTO is a modern day F40.

[werewolf]

Originally Posted by ChalStrad

Interesting question!

I have a Challenge Stradale and for me it is an icon.

I had a Scuderia, sold it after 700 kms as - for me - it was a marketing ploy and lacked what the CS delivered

I also have an F40

Originally, I cancelled my GTO order as I was "sure" that it was a 599 in Scuderia "clothing", then I drove one and .... Whoops, I was wrong! The GTO is an icon because it is a road going XX, that remains the most extreme front engined Ferrari (believe me, I know).

An F40 is no longer the fastest car out there, but it is the original (and some say only) super car. The GTO is a modern day F40.

there's a post worth quoting from someone with real experience, no less !!!!

thank you, good sir

[of2worlds]

How the 599 GTO came to exist is a curious question.
Back in 2006 Amedeo Felisa was the General Manager of Ferrari. With the success of the Stradale two years earlier Ferrari was going in a different direction with a new V12 - the 599 GTB Fiorano. Did a 'Stradale' version of the the 599 fit into future marketing plans, was a question from journalists. Amedeo Felisa pronounced that Ferrari was happy with the level of performance offered by the new 599 GTB. He stated there were no plans for a performance version. Now this could just be PR talk but these comments came from the new General Manager whose background was engineering and who years ago had headed up the 550 development program for the top performing front engine V12 model at that time. It would be hard to find a stronger backer of front engine V12 performance models in the company.
What changes pushed Ferrari to build a GTO version of the 599? It should be noted that the 458 which some criticized as being too heavy has actually been engineered from the beginning to accept a horsepower 'upgrade' half way through it's production life. Did the old one year only Stradale continue to exert an influence on future Ferrari model decisions?
CH

[Noblesse Oblige]

Originally Posted by of2worlds

It should be noted that the 458 which some criticized as being too heavy has actually been engineered from the beginning to accept a horsepower 'upgrade' half way through it's production life. CH

Interesting. Do you have any additional information or sources one can go to?