Go Back   FerrariChat.com > Model Specific Discussions > 308/328

Reply
 
Share/Bookmark LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:45 AM
Formula 3
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Miami
Full Name: Rammer
Posts: 1,132
Ferrari 308 engine rebuild, basic questions??

Greetings: I am doing some preliminary research for an engine rebuild on my 1976 308 GTB. I have already looked at the Forza articles, visited some F-car tuner web sites, and read past threads here.

The goal is to put together a mostly stock engine for the next 30 years of ownership. Like everyone else, I would not mind picking up a few horse power along the way.

First question, what are the basic parts that we change in a standard rebuild with stock heads? I saw a kit that included the following:

Pistons and ring set
Connecting rod bearings
main bearing set
gasket set
intake and exhaust valves
valve guides
valve guide seals

I know more parts may come up but are these the basics?

Next questions:

It seems that JE pistons are the way to go. I read not to exceed 10:5:1 compression. How does 10:5:1 compression affect driveability and durability. What benefits can I expect from the higher compression? HP gain?

Also, feel free where I can save money and gain HP....

That is a start, more questions later.....Thanks in advance!

Last edited by RAMMER; 08-04-2011 at 12:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #2  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:58 AM
F1 Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MexicoCity/ChesterMD
Full Name: Mike 996
Posts: 3,613
That's pretty much a standard "kit" for rebuilding an engine. As you noted, more stuff may, and probably will, show up. Obviously, machine work will be necessary to install the new guides and subsequent valve job. Be sure NOT to order parts until the engine is apart since you won't know what size items to buy depending (bearings, rings, etc etc.) on existing clearances or any machining that might be necessary.

As far as hi comp pistons - you will gain about 3-4% HP per one full point of compression increase. On one of these engines, one point would be worth around 7-8HP. Driveability will be fine since one of the advantages of higher compression is more power throughout the power range. 10.5:1 would be the absolute max I would recommend with current, regularly available pump gas.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-04-2011, 12:23 PM
smg2's Avatar
F1 Veteran
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Newport Beach
Full Name: SMG
Posts: 5,259
The other question would be, is it carb or CIS? the carb engines with the better cams and breathing produce better results with a bump in compression then the anemic CIS, there's a quite a bit of overlap on these motors so dynamic compression is fairly.

With the head work get the springs checked to make sure there still in spec and the valve seats as well. Wouldn't hurt to do some porting as well to improve velocity and flow, the 2v heads are pretty bad in that area.

And Mike's right it's not a good idea to order parts until you've pulled apart and inspected the engine to see what needs replacement. You may find some items have worn and the replacement cost will eat into the budget to where you may have to drop the 'want' items in order to rebuild the engine.

head studs are one issue, replacement cost is very high. you mention wanting another 30yrs of service life. Check the oil pump and clearances. replace all bearings and upgrade where possible, esp the water pump. Have a competent machine shop who's familiar with the 308 blocks do any needed machining.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-04-2011, 12:54 PM
Formula 3
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Miami
Full Name: Rammer
Posts: 1,132
Carbed 308 glass car

It is a carbed 308 glass car that ran very strong. I dont really want to port the heads. I would be relatively happy with a 20 HP gain mostly due to compression. Any other place to find cheap/simple HP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smg2 View Post
The other question would be, is it carb or CIS? the carb engines with the better cams and breathing produce better results with a bump in compression then the anemic CIS, there's a quite a bit of overlap on these motors so dynamic compression is fairly.

With the head work get the springs checked to make sure there still in spec and the valve seats as well. Wouldn't hurt to do some porting as well to improve velocity and flow, the 2v heads are pretty bad in that area.

And Mike's right it's not a good idea to order parts until you've pulled apart and inspected the engine to see what needs replacement. You may find some items have worn and the replacement cost will eat into the budget to where you may have to drop the 'want' items in order to rebuild the engine.

head studs are one issue, replacement cost is very high. you mention wanting another 30yrs of service life. Check the oil pump and clearances. replace all bearings and upgrade where possible, esp the water pump. Have a competent machine shop who's familiar with the 308 blocks do any needed machining.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:00 PM
PV Dirk's Avatar
F1 Rookie
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So. Oregon
Posts: 4,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMER View Post
It is a carbed 308 glass car that ran very strong. I dont really want to port the heads. I would be relatively happy with a 20 HP gain mostly due to compression. Any other place to find cheap/simple HP?
How many miles are on it and why did it quit running?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-04-2011, 06:37 PM
Rookie
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 32
is it worth it ?ask anyone here

it is better to sell everything for what you can get right now before putting 1 cent into this
FERRARI take the cash you are planning to throw away on this car & buy something with
more hp that is standard & would have more value in the long run, dont do what the cheap
skate does,best thing to do is sell what you already have & buy another FERRARI or you will
be sorry dont make the same mistake most guys do
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-04-2011, 08:14 PM
shmark's Avatar
Formula 3
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Atlanta
Full Name: Mark
Posts: 2,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN SHAW View Post
it is better to sell everything for what you can get right now before putting 1 cent into this
FERRARI take the cash you are planning to throw away on this car & buy something with
more hp that is standard & would have more value in the long run, dont do what the cheap
skate does,best thing to do is sell what you already have & buy another FERRARI or you will
be sorry dont make the same mistake most guys do
That's one point of view...and uncalled for. Since he said "the next 30 years of ownership" I assume he actually wants THIS car and price really doesn't matter.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-04-2011, 11:44 PM
Formula 3
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Miami
Full Name: Rammer
Posts: 1,132
The irony of life.....

My car had about 50k miles and it was running great. It did not smoke and I never had to add a drop of oil. One day, a few months ago, I decided to take a nice drive as I often do. The irony is that I decided to document my evening and share it with all of you. Please see the thread below which I titled "Diary of a 308 owner". On my way back home that night my car suddenly loss power. It did not sound good. I parked the car intantly and had it towed to a shop that my family operates. I was only going about 20 miles an hour.

In the past few months, I tried to get my car to my mechanic but he was not available. We then did a compression test and found 0 compression on one piston (the other 7 were perfect). I then removed the head and found a valve had failed, causing damage to the piston. As simple as that, a great running engine now needs to be rebuilt. All because of one valve.

If you cannot tell by the thread, I love my car dearly. Selling or changing is not an option. We will make a comeback.....this time with significantly better valves!

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294174


Quote:
Originally Posted by PV Dirk View Post
How many miles are on it and why did it quit running?
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #9  
Old 08-05-2011, 12:28 AM
Formula 3
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Miami
Full Name: Rammer
Posts: 1,132
You got the wrong guy......

What if you just happen to love 308's? What if you have a 1976 fiberglass carbed 308 which from what I understand is very desireable. What if your the type of person who gets emotionally attached to these old beasts?

Speaking of value, these early 308's seem to keep going up in value. It seems to me that in the next few years their value will surpass the faster, with more standard HP Ferraris that you mention.

I understand what you are saying but this is a totally different situation. It is not a money pit. I love my car and can't ever imagine selling it. Check out my thread encouraging ownership and spreading the love that 308s can add to your life!

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196143

Also, whatever the cheap skate does, I will not be doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN SHAW View Post
it is better to sell everything for what you can get right now before putting 1 cent into this
FERRARI take the cash you are planning to throw away on this car & buy something with
more hp that is standard & would have more value in the long run, dont do what the cheap
skate does,best thing to do is sell what you already have & buy another FERRARI or you will
be sorry dont make the same mistake most guys do

Last edited by RAMMER; 08-05-2011 at 12:36 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-05-2011, 12:35 AM
Formula 3
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Temecula, CA
Full Name: Scott
Posts: 2,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMER View Post
My car had about 50k miles and it was running great. It did not smoke and I never had to add a drop of oil. One day, a few months ago, I decided to take a nice drive as I often do. The irony is that I decided to document my evening and share it with all of you. Please see the thread below which I titled "Diary of a 308 owner". On my way back home that night my car suddenly loss power. It did not sound good. I parked the car intantly and had it towed to a shop that my family operates. I was only going about 20 miles an hour.

In the past few months, I tried to get my car to my mechanic but he was not available. We then did a compression test and found 0 compression on one piston (the other 7 were perfect). I then removed the head and found a valve had failed, causing damage to the piston. As simple as that, a great running engine now needs to be rebuilt. All because of one valve.

If you cannot tell by the thread, I love my car dearly. Selling or changing is not an option. We will make a comeback.....this time with significantly better valves!

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294174
Really sorry this happened...and makes me paranoid as hell! :-o
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-05-2011, 07:37 AM
Rookie
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 32
quattrovalvole 4 VALVES per cylinder

if it was a quattrovalvole maybe,get a EURO 260 horse power already,think about this
lots of EURO QUATTROVALVOLE 308'S for sale if FLORIDA look at craigslist some good
out there,florida has the cheapest price for there cars because of the ECONOMY

dont let anyone tell you different, you might have to sell in case of emergency anytime
life holds no guaranteed,economy,job,home, you got the picture
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-05-2011, 07:59 AM
shmark's Avatar
Formula 3
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Atlanta
Full Name: Mark
Posts: 2,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHN SHAW View Post
if it was a quattrovalvole maybe,get a EURO 260 horse power already,think about this
lots of EURO QUATTROVALVOLE 308'S for sale if FLORIDA look at craigslist some good
out there,florida has the cheapest price for there cars because of the ECONOMY

dont let anyone tell you different, you might have to sell in case of emergency anytime
life holds no guaranteed,economy,job,home, you got the picture
Dude take a break. It's his car, he loves it, and you're out of line.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-05-2011, 08:22 AM
Two Time F1 World Champ
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wales-UK
Full Name: Steve.
Posts: 20,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by shmark View Post
Dude take a break. It's his car, he loves it, and you're out of line.
I agree, JOHN SHAW back off a little ok?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-05-2011, 08:52 AM
F1 Rookie
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MexicoCity/ChesterMD
Full Name: Mike 996
Posts: 3,613
Re wanting 20 more hp...What's the stock compression on the engine? If it's down around 9:1 then put in the 10.5 and run synthetic 0w40 and you will essentially have that 20 hp over the stock motor/Dino oil. 0w40 is worth 8-10 hp at max power over something like 20w50 Dino which a lot of people run in these cars (though Ferrari doesn't recommend it).
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-05-2011, 09:26 AM
Formula Junior
Non Subscribed
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 564
Rebuilding the engine in your car may not make the most sense financially to some, but then I would suggest that those same people wouldn't buy one of these cars to begin with. And they should be prevented from doing so, for the sake of more appreciative owners if all they want to do is chop it up the moment something goes wrong. The hours spent rehabilitating your car will go a long way towards making the car yours in the sentimental sense, as opposed to just something you own. So many here always suggest getting a car that is 'well sorted'. I understand the argument, but where's the fun in that? I say go for it. Learn all you can, be patient, and don't spare the bank account (within reason)!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Formula 3
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Temecula, CA
Full Name: Scott
Posts: 2,314
Euro QVs = 240 HP (maybe...if we believe Ferrari), not 260. Also...it's a glass car; how often do you see one of those up for sale? How often do you see QVs up for sale? What does this tell you?
Reply With Quote
Non-Sponsor Ads
  #17  
Old 08-05-2011, 01:25 PM
saw1998's Avatar
F1 Veteran
Rossa Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Full Name: Scott
Posts: 7,822
My Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by wazie7262 View Post
Euro QVs = 240 HP (maybe...if we believe Ferrari), not 260. Also...it's a glass car; how often do you see one of those up for sale? How often do you see QVs up for sale? What does this tell you?
Scott:

You speak the truth, my Brother. Hang on to your 308 and spend the money necessary to get it to the level you desire. You, without equivocation, own what will become one of the most desirable Ferraris in the relatively near-future.

If I wanted an engine rebuilt by a master, I would send my car (or the engine alone) to Scuderia Rampante in Boulder, CO. Dave Helms will give you a rebuild unequaled by anyone else. Moreover, for the price will be surprising low, considering the level of quality.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-05-2011, 02:09 PM
PV Dirk's Avatar
F1 Rookie
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: So. Oregon
Posts: 4,648
I seem to recall some of the techs here talking about minor repairs for such issues if the piston isn't too damaged. I thought there was talk of taking any burrs off the piston, replacing the offending valve. That is contingent on no issues with rod or bearings. At 50K, if the damage is isolated, this "might" be a good time to do all new valves and reinstall the heads. It looks like you use your car as a pleasure driver and this simple fix may set you up for the next 30 years with no loss of power or usability. If this is even a consideration and it was my car I'd certainly have conversations with a couple of the best techs. Over repair only costs more money and my budget doesn't support a rebuild, but if an experienced tech had faith in a repair instead of a full rebuild, I'd be game.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-05-2011, 03:18 PM
Formula Junior
Silver Subscribed
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Los Angeles/Florida
Posts: 593
Opining with an attiude and your not even subcribed??

John Shaw..If you are trying to suck all of the air out of this room, please, at least subcribe to Fchat, as most of us here depend on this forum as a very welcome life-line for the cars we love, and we come here for much needed mutual help from each other. Otherwise, take a "lude" or maybe better yet just take a hike..Over...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-05-2011, 04:14 PM
Formula Junior
Not Subscribed
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Northen California
Full Name: Ken
Posts: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAMMER View Post
... I then removed the head and found a valve had failed, causing damage to the piston. As simple as that, a great running engine now needs to be rebuilt. All because of one valve.

If you cannot tell by the thread, I love my car dearly. Selling or changing is not an option. We will make a comeback.....this time with significantly better valves!
It still has the early sodium valves???

An engine rebuild may cost you dearly but as long as you're happy. Please posts pictures of the car as it's being worked on.

Best of luck!

Last edited by mustardfj40; 08-05-2011 at 04:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:43 AM.


FerrariChat.com has no association with Ferrari S.p.A.
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.