Curb Weight: US Super Ferraris, CS and Scuderia - Page 5

**Bill S** · #81 06-22-2009, 05:55 PM

Thanks guys and great comments. I'm trying very hard to provide the most accurate date I can. Here's an updated chart. All cars (including the 430) have PCCB/CCB except the Ruf. No fire extinguishers. We also weighed a CS with radio and fire extinguisher. It weighed 31 lbs more than the one shown in this chart:

**F430GT** · #82 06-22-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill S

Thanks for the info. All cars have PCCB/CCB except the Ruf and 430. I'll add that info to the chart.

Why do you think the 430 Owner's Manual says the tank is 26.4 gallons and the Scuderia says 25.1? Are they different? The same? How do you know?

Bill, I did quite some research on the F430 as I was in the market for one for over a year. I decided to get the Scuderia, because it was cheaper on the long term, and the regular F430 needed close to $100k on upgrades to satisfy my needs (essentially to work better than a modified 997 GT3 RS).

The 26.4 gallons fuel tank made it to U.S. just at the beginning of 2005, the same cars that had Launch Control. That same year Ferrari switched to new fuel tanks (Part #231403 and #231404) to fulfill U.S. regulations for exhaust gas venting, these tanks have a total capacity of 25.1 gallons. For a similar reason we didn't get the 23.7 gallon fuel tank in the GT3/GT3 RS, as it didn't fulfill the U.S DOT regulations, so Porsche installed the Boxster/Carrera fuel tank already compliant with DOT.

The Scuderia uses the same fuel tanks as the U.S. F430.

**Bill S** · #83 06-22-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F430GT

Bill, I did quite some research on the F430 as I was in the market for one for over a year. I decided to get the Scuderia, because it was cheaper on the long term, and the regular F430 needed close to $100k on upgrades to satisfy my needs (essentially to work better than a modified 997 GT3 RS).

The 26.4 gallons fuel tank made it to U.S. just at the beginning of 2005, the same cars that had Launch Control. That same year Ferrari switched to new fuel tanks (Part #231403 and #231404) to fulfill U.S. regulations for exhaust gas venting, these tanks have a total capacity of 25.1 gallons. For a similar reason we didn't get the 23.7 gallon fuel tank in the GT3/GT3 RS, as it didn't fulfill the U.S DOT regulations, so Porsche installed the Boxster/Carrera fuel tank already compliant with DOT.

The Scuderia uses the same fuel tanks as the U.S. F430.

Thanks for the great info. 25.1 matches what it says in the Scuderia Owner's manual. Since the 430 owner's manual (2005 model) says it's 26.4 gallons, I'll assume it's 26.4 gallon tank for now.

Luckily it's only an 8 lb difference if we're wrong.

**Tipo815** · #84 06-23-2009, 11:35 AM

Bill - How important is a completely level ground that the scales are sitting on. I noticed in the photos that the scales are sitting on a regular driveway that might have some uneveness in it. Wouldn't this affect the corner weights?

**Bill S** · #85 06-23-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipo815

Bill - How important is a completely level ground that the scales are sitting on. I noticed in the photos that the scales are sitting on a regular driveway that might have some uneveness in it. Wouldn't this affect the corner weights?

Yes, that would to a small extent. We tried to keep it as level as possible. But since we care more about the overall weight, we didn't spend too much time on getting the car perfectly level.

BTW, the brick driveway where we were at is very level, contrary to how it may appear in the photos.

**Tipo815** · #86 06-23-2009, 05:34 PM

Bill - Compliments of a dear friend of mine who also owns a US spec F50. Since I'm so absent minded and could not remember to look this up for you in my manual he was so kind as to look it up in his while I was thinking about it at the office today. Here is what he sent back to me:

FERRARI F50 Owners Manual U.S. Version M.Y.1995
Summary 1. Page 5 Kerb weight 2998 lb
Summary 1. Page 11 27.7 U.S. Gallon

Hope this helps!

**Bill S** · #87 06-23-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipo815

Bill - Compliments of a dear friend of mine who also owns a US spec F50. Since I'm so absent minded and could not remember to look this up for you in my manual he was so kind as to look it up in his while I was thinking about it at the office today. Here is what he sent back to me:

FERRARI F50 Owners Manual U.S. Version M.Y.1995
Summary 1. Page 5 Kerb weight 2998 lb
Summary 1. Page 11 27.7 U.S. Gallon

Hope this helps!

Jeffrey, thanks so much! I updated the table below. I may be able to weigh a local US F40, F50 and 288 GTO in early July when the owner returns from vacation. If you know of one or more of these vehicles I can weigh sooner, please let me know. I can visit the owner. It only takes 10 minutes.

gbrown37 · #88 06-23-2009, 06:37 PM

Bill, you caught me in some of those pictures! I'm famous now.

By the way, I'm astonished at the weight comparison between the Stradale and the Scuderia. Jon, I can't wait to see that thing in person!

The next step, Bill, would be to just buy yourself a dyno to settle those horsepower arguments. Whaddaya say?

**Bill S** · #89 06-23-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbrown37

Bill, you caught me in some of those pictures! I'm famous now.

By the way, I'm astonished at the weight comparison between the Stradale and the Scuderia. Jon, I can't wait to see that thing in person!

The next step, Bill, would be to just buy yourself a dyno to settle those horsepower arguments. Whaddaya say?

I think you became famous before this with your CGT photo. I also think Jon's Stradale is the lightest you can get.

I like 60 to 130 MPH tests. But that was a different project (started in December 2004) that turned into a National event...

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...asurement.html
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...standings.html

h22gordo · #90 06-23-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill S

Thanks for the info. All cars have PCCB/CCB except the Ruf and 430. I'll add that info to the chart.

Why do you think the 430 Owner's Manual says the tank is 26.4 gallons and the Scuderia says 25.1? Are they different? The same? How do you know?

Bill, as I was looking through the pictures.....the red 2005 F430 that you weighed seems to have Carbon Ceramics on it.
Can you confirm?

**Bill S** · #91 06-23-2009, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h22gordo

Bill, as I was looking through the pictures.....the red 2005 F430 that you weighed seems to have Carbon Ceramics on it.
Can you confirm?

Correct and good eyes. I updated the table. I can't edit my older post to correct.

**Tipo815** · #92 06-23-2009, 08:54 PM

Bill - I think it would be interesting to add two columns to your spreadsheet for comparison basis. Add a rated horsepower (per the owner's manuals or some other verifiable publication) and then a HP/pound comparison. Although the Stradale and two Ferrari supercars are close in weight the hp/pound would be significanly different.

**Bill S** · #93 06-23-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tipo815

Bill - I think it would be interesting to add two columns to your spreadsheet for comparison basis. Add a rated horsepower (per the owner's manuals or some other verifiable publication) and then a HP/pound comparison. Although the Stradale and two Ferrari supercars are close in weight the hp/pound would be significanly different.

That's an interesting comment.

The lighter the car, the faster it responds to human input (e.g., brake pedal, steering wheel, and accelerator pedal). Light cars almost feel like no car at all. I like to say "The car feel like it's made out of cardboad". That's the feeling, regardless of the horsepower.

HP/pound is basically a rough indication of how strong a car may accelerate. But acceleration depends on many other factors, like the engne power curve, gearing and aerodynamics. So that's why I proposed 60-130 MPH a long time ago, and that has really caught on with 60-130 events held throughout the country. Not many people care about 0-60 anymore because it's not often that a Ferrari owner races from a dead stop. 60-130 is a more meaningful measurement because it occurs often on the road (!) and track. We recently ran an event that compared many very fast cars. Some cars with very fast 0-60 (e.g., 3.2 seconds) seemed very slow when raced against other cars with 0-60 of 3.6 seconds or longer. We started the races at 30-40 mph where traction and low first gears didn't help much. I'm looking forward to the day when 60-130 is a primary performance indicator, and HP, Torque, and HP/pound are provided for historical purposes.

To that end, I'll add a new column that lists the 60-130 times for these vehicles as I have it for the Enzo, CS, GT3 RS, CGT, Ruf, and 430. The fastest 60-130 times for the other cars will likely be harder to get, but we'll get them some day.

**Bill S** · #94 06-23-2009, 10:51 PM

Updated chart with GPS-verified 60-130 mph times added for acceleration reference. As I noted in the prior post, the vehicle weight affect how fast the car responds to human input, regardless of these acceleration times.

**246tasman** · #95 06-24-2009, 01:31 AM

Great thread.

1. Hopefully you will add the data for the Euro F40 when it becomes available. To me the whole beauty of the F40 is in it's functionality & light weight.
2. I'm surprised at there being no input from Jim on the P4/5, and am trying to avoid jumping to conclusions....

Niche · #96 06-24-2009, 01:58 AM

Bill,

Nice to see the project moving along... I'm just happy my car wasn't as "fat" as I thought it would be!

Javier

**Bill S** · #97 06-24-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 246tasman

Great thread.

1. Hopefully you will add the data for the Euro F40 when it becomes available. To me the whole beauty of the F40 is in it's functionality & light weight.
2. I'm surprised at there being no input from Jim on the P4/5, and am trying to avoid jumping to conclusions....

Jim did provide some info, but not with a full tank and with a different scale system.

I'd be honored to weigh Jim's car! If he brings it to Southern CA, I'll take him for some very memorable road trips (Enzo and P 4/5), and invite him to stay at my home for the duration.

**joe sackey** · #98 06-24-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill S

Updated chart with GPS-verified 60-130 mph times added for acceleration reference. As I noted in the prior post, the vehicle weight affect how fast the car responds to human input, regardless of these acceleration times.

Bill, its looking good, but for the international viewer, perhaps a note on the chart that these numbers are based on USA-spec models (except the GTO) would make it more complete?

**Bill S** · #99 06-24-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe sackey

Bill, its looking good, but for the international viewer, perhaps a note on the chart that these numbers are based on USA-spec models (except the GTO) would make it more complete?

Thanks Joe. Done...

littlebastard · #**100** 06-24-2009, 01:05 PM

My 512BB weighed 3280 on a certified truck scale, misc tools and 1/2 tank of fuel puts the factory dry weight t 3080 correct IMO. This is a pure Euro car never converted. The huge 4 can exhaust system weighs 100lbs at least a after market Tubi would lose 70lbs off that weight at 30lbs, then we have old school heavy York A/C compressors that weigh 40lbs. IMO newer Ferraris haven't made much improvement in weight reduction with newer composits, aluminum alloy panels are just as light.